ArcticFormula

02 Formula, lid-catback car, going with AFR 205 Heads, keeping everything else stock for all intents and purposes. Want a cam with near stock idle and drivability. Goal for the car: consistant 110+ traps in 80 degree near sea level air. Not sure where the car (stock) shifts as is, but wouldn't want to bump it more than 400 rpm.

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

I had this cam back in '99. It was awesome. It should meet your needs:

MTI A1 209/216 .533/.552 116LSA
Huge increase in torque, nice idle, and a good jump in top end.

Nowadays with the new grinds, I would choose something a little bigger:
216/224, .560/.560 114LSA (faster ramps should give it similar idle, but a nice jump in power over the A1). If you were running long tubes, I would not recommend such a wide split in cam pattern, but with stock manifolds, you will run better with a little more exhaust bias.

jrp

iTrader: (16)

whats your reservation about a new TC?

ArcticFormula

Cost issue/drivability thing. Really don't want to fork over the cash for a converter/transcooler right now. Looking for horsepower first.

Patrick G, thank you for the insight. Think I would go slower with a even split cam like the Stealth I, 220-220? Realize it has more lift at .580 but, this gets to the heart of another question I have, since I will have stock manifolds should I only look for exhaust biased cams? I am completely open to a custom cam as well. My crude understanding is more fuel and air, I guess how much fuel would my setup handle before going backwards, and should be considered, and is, but not to many people are opting for a configuration like mine, so looking for help.

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

You will be very borderline idling in gear with a 216 cam. A 220 cam is a definite no-no in my book with a stock converter. You will want the idle speed raised from 550 in drive to at least 650 with a 216 cam. With a 220 cam, you'd probably need more like 700 rpm in drive. At 700 rpm in drive, the stock converter starts pulling against the brakes.

If you decide to go looser on converter, you can go a hair wilder on the cam.

It's my opinion, that you need to have a more biased exhaust lobe when running stock manifolds and closed exhaust. It's the way GM builds them and the way Lingenfelter would recommend them for a daily driver with stock converter. I've been kicking around a similar combination for my car, but I would probably go a little wilder on the cam since I have a 6 speed (but still stock exhaust manifolds). I've definitely put a lot of thought into your question, so don't think I'm just giving you a wild *** guess.

blkZ28spt

My $0.02
I see no reason to have a minor horsepower boost with a baby cam when the alternative is a converter that will drop a half second.

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

I agree, a converter would drop ET a lot more than a cam, but ArcticFormula set the rules. Oh, and by the way...this baby cam would give around a 30 rwhp boost to the tires, even with stock manifolds. I wouldn't classify that as a minor hp boost (unless you're a nitrous junkie, LOL).

ArcticFormula

Have read the posts carefully, that really sucks if the idle will have to be bumped up with strain on brakes (not a good option for me). Looks like I'm off to the Trans Section again to see who makes the most efficient converter. Patrick, you have very succiently stated a couple of my concerns, that the idle on a cam to reach my goals might need to be raised creating a problem using the stock verter. I really appreciate the input! I guess now the question for me is how much stall and how low an STR can I get away with to run the cam I need with a say 700 rpm idle or less, as I want the most efficient converter money can buy (arrrahhhhgg I just want horsepower).

nuzee

iTrader: (2)

FYI, I am using a small cam, CompCams 206/212 .515/.522 112, with stock converter & exhaust manifolds. Runs fine with stock tune. I can feel a power increase from idle thru the mid range. It is much easier to get low 1.9 to hi 1.8 60 ft times now. Power up top feels like stock. I gained 3mph in the 1/8, but only 1 mph in the 1/4 traps from it. Can't seem to better 108.4 mph. I only removed the spare & jack and run with 1/4 tank gas. With more weight reduction, I should see 109s. I weigh 240lbs. If I had a 140 lb. driver, then I think 110 mph would be doable with my setup.

The other cam that I think could get you there would be the 212/218 114 cam.

PREDATOR-Z

Lingenfelter GT2
Or I might get shot for this one but I've used it before
216/220, .525/.532 114 COMP Cam XR269HR . Very tame and good power, I made 400 rwhp with it H/C, pulley and LT's on M6.

BriancWS6

iTrader: (18)

Don't close the door on the converter idea. IMHO it isn't an option, but a necessity. I know you have your goal, but I just can't see spending the $$$ on heads/cam, and not having the supporting mods (converter, headers, etc) to go with them. To me you've got everything backwards, but it's your car, your money, and your idea, so good luck.

family sedan

iTrader: (3)

ArticFormula: If I've learned anything it is do it right the first time. Get a good converter and a TR224/114 cam. If you play with the idle and use a quiet exhaust plus stock manifolds it is really hard to hear. Great power everywhere. A 3500 stall is a pleasure to daily drive, way more fun than stock.

someday

how about something like a 216/222 XE on a 115 or 116... and a TCI SF3000, u'll never know its there, and it will get u a half second on its own...

marc_w

FWIW, I ran a TR220-112 in my near stock 6.0 (stock except for cat-back and my own backyard tuning). I was able to get it to idle nice and solid at 600rpm in gear. Out of gear, I normally left it around 650 or so.

The IAC and throttle follower in my drive by wire throttle body would sometimes bite me and give me idling fits when pulling up to a stop - but I get that now with my 210/218 112 when the computer goes through it's little (alleged) learning process after I mess with things.

Also, for what it's worth, I love the 210/218 .531/.531 112 cam I have in there now. It's a VHP grind that I've been ranting and raving about.

Power from 1,900-6,000. Lots of low end. It's a little soft under 1,500 rpm which I can feel with my stock converter when I'm putting around taking it easy, or driving with the stock lockup points of 35mph. It would be BARELY noticeable in a nice lightweight car. Anytime you put your foot into it with any sort of authority it easily gets past that soft area and pulls very sharply. I'm able to flash my stock converter to 2,100, if that's any idication of the low end power available.

It's a fun street cam. It's nice to float in an out of the area where the cam wakes up between 1,700 and 1,900 or so - the exhaust note changes and you feel the torque pick up.

This cam, cat back, e-fans, and my crappy tuning got my slug of a truck at full street weight (5,400lbs?) and 3/4 tank of gas down the track at 14.5 at 92 with a 2.13 60'.

68birdls1

iTrader: (46)

i say look into a vig or a tci 3000 convertor. and the convertor will better suit the cam. its like making cerial... you dont add the milk before you pour the bowl! lol

5POINT7

For real, AFR 205's and a cam on stock TC and exhaust? You're gonna choke the crap out of your setup and not even come close to using its full potential.


FWIW, if you're dead set on leaving everything stock, go with my cam in sig. Comp 212/218 114. Great torque and acceptable top end.

ArcticFormula

I've gone back and forth on the stock TC thing. I'm looking at the TCI 3000 now or maybe something a bit milder. The extra expense is going to push my install date into February. Appreciate all of the responses. Can't wait for spring

marc_w

With the power I'm getting out of my very mild setup, I think a converter will be one of my last mods. It's just not _needed_ and I actually like the tightness of the stocker.

I've got a Yank 2600 (the mild 2800 for you F-bod guys) sitting at home - I just have no desired to put it in.

99ssleeper

iTrader: (98)

I understand what you're saying...however, I have a Midwest 3500 stall. It was the best mod I have done besides headers. Drivability is the same (I do plenty of around town driving)..it locks up just like the stock TC, I average 17mpg which is mostly city driving, it cost $500 to my door and I installed it....total cost for the TC, cooler, shift kit, and GM deep pan was ~$800. I'd do that before a cam anyday. I am thinking of going with a higher stall already (so if you're interested, I'll give you a deal on this one).

BTW, the time in my sig is with the 3500 stall, headers, TR224, untuned, ~3650 raceweight. That's using 275 Nitto DRs.

If you have an A4, the mods sequence should be headers, converter, cam. I talk from experience.