Motor problems again, please help me figure this out
11-28-2004, 06:00 PM
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Motor problems again, please help me figure this out On the way home from the track (I did stop at the grocery store) I noticed an odd noise. It was on the highway, steady speed, shortly after I had accelerated at a moderate pace. The car started to run fairly rough (primarily at slower speeds) and the tach stopped working.
Most of the noise turned out to be a blown gasket for my cutout. I recently hit a man hole cover which bent my cutout so it would be easier to blow out than normal. I fixed the cutout but then noticed there was noise from the engine.
A friend, who is a pretty good mechanic, sugguested that I check the timing chain spocket cam bolts and cam retainer bolts. The sprocket bolts were loose but didn't fix my problem.
Dave heard the noise and thought it might be one of the following: broken rocker, broken valve springs, broken lifter or a spun bearing.
The car is a 2000 Formula that I use primarily at the track. It has a brand new LS6 block, MTI stage II LS6 heads, LG GX3 cam, Yella Terra rockers, Comp r lifters, new gm replacement rods/pistons/flycut w/ arp bolts (take offs) and my original crank. I have 2-3k miles on the motor at most. It ran really strong (it never was really setup for all out racing) Never used nitrous, shift at 6,600 w/ the rev limiter set at 6,800 (6 spd car).
I'm going to drain the oil to see if anything comes out. The rockers are fine. Difficult to tell if the springs are ok but seem fine.
Any thought would really be appreciated.
One last thing. I autotapped the car. There was a code stating that the cam sensor was reading high?
Most of the noise turned out to be a blown gasket for my cutout. I recently hit a man hole cover which bent my cutout so it would be easier to blow out than normal. I fixed the cutout but then noticed there was noise from the engine.
A friend, who is a pretty good mechanic, sugguested that I check the timing chain spocket cam bolts and cam retainer bolts. The sprocket bolts were loose but didn't fix my problem.
Dave heard the noise and thought it might be one of the following: broken rocker, broken valve springs, broken lifter or a spun bearing.
The car is a 2000 Formula that I use primarily at the track. It has a brand new LS6 block, MTI stage II LS6 heads, LG GX3 cam, Yella Terra rockers, Comp r lifters, new gm replacement rods/pistons/flycut w/ arp bolts (take offs) and my original crank. I have 2-3k miles on the motor at most. It ran really strong (it never was really setup for all out racing) Never used nitrous, shift at 6,600 w/ the rev limiter set at 6,800 (6 spd car).
I'm going to drain the oil to see if anything comes out. The rockers are fine. Difficult to tell if the springs are ok but seem fine.
Any thought would really be appreciated.
One last thing. I autotapped the car. There was a code stating that the cam sensor was reading high?
Last edited by Bill00Formula; 11-28-2004 at 07:12 PM.
12-05-2004, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill00Formula
On the way home from the track (I did stop at the grocery store) I noticed an odd noise. It was on the highway, steady speed, shortly after I had accelerated at a moderate pace. The car started to run fairly rough (primarily at slower speeds) and the tach stopped working.
Most of the noise turned out to be a blown gasket for my cutout. I recently hit a man hole cover which bent my cutout so it would be easier to blow out than normal. I fixed the cutout but then noticed there was noise from the engine.
A friend, who is a pretty good mechanic, sugguested that I check the timing chain spocket cam bolts and cam retainer bolts. The sprocket bolts were loose but didn't fix my problem.
Dave heard the noise and thought it might be one of the following: broken rocker, broken valve springs, broken lifter or a spun bearing.
The car is a 2000 Formula that I use primarily at the track. It has a brand new LS6 block, MTI stage II LS6 heads, LG GX3 cam, Yella Terra rockers, Comp r lifters, new gm replacement rods/pistons/flycut w/ arp bolts (take offs) and my original crank. I have 2-3k miles on the motor at most. It ran really strong (it never was really setup for all out racing) Never used nitrous, shift at 6,600 w/ the rev limiter set at 6,800 (6 spd car).
I'm going to drain the oil to see if anything comes out. The rockers are fine. Difficult to tell if the springs are ok but seem fine.
Any thought would really be appreciated.
One last thing. I autotapped the car. There was a code stating that the cam sensor was reading high?
Most of the noise turned out to be a blown gasket for my cutout. I recently hit a man hole cover which bent my cutout so it would be easier to blow out than normal. I fixed the cutout but then noticed there was noise from the engine.
A friend, who is a pretty good mechanic, sugguested that I check the timing chain spocket cam bolts and cam retainer bolts. The sprocket bolts were loose but didn't fix my problem.
Dave heard the noise and thought it might be one of the following: broken rocker, broken valve springs, broken lifter or a spun bearing.
The car is a 2000 Formula that I use primarily at the track. It has a brand new LS6 block, MTI stage II LS6 heads, LG GX3 cam, Yella Terra rockers, Comp r lifters, new gm replacement rods/pistons/flycut w/ arp bolts (take offs) and my original crank. I have 2-3k miles on the motor at most. It ran really strong (it never was really setup for all out racing) Never used nitrous, shift at 6,600 w/ the rev limiter set at 6,800 (6 spd car).
I'm going to drain the oil to see if anything comes out. The rockers are fine. Difficult to tell if the springs are ok but seem fine.
Any thought would really be appreciated.
One last thing. I autotapped the car. There was a code stating that the cam sensor was reading high?
12-05-2004, 07:39 PM
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Well, not sure the cause but many of the lifters were banged up (worn way down, rounded) and the cam was probably ruined as well. Kind of odd but seemed like the passenger side was damaged more than the drivers side. Valve float, too much pressure on the cam? Not sure. I'm bringing the cam and lifters to the engine builder tomorrow to see if he can tell what the caused this.
I wasn't able to get the lifters out easily because of the damage; must be flared out at the bottom. In fact one is so bad that I'm going to drop it down to where the cam sets and pick it up with a magnet.
Heads appear to be undamaged and no abnormal metal shavings in the oil. Did seem like a lot of normal kind of filings on the drain plug, guess that was part of the rollers on the lfters.
I'd like to get it back together for next saturday but it's looking slim. Can't order parts until I know the cause.
I wasn't able to get the lifters out easily because of the damage; must be flared out at the bottom. In fact one is so bad that I'm going to drop it down to where the cam sets and pick it up with a magnet.
Heads appear to be undamaged and no abnormal metal shavings in the oil. Did seem like a lot of normal kind of filings on the drain plug, guess that was part of the rollers on the lfters.
I'd like to get it back together for next saturday but it's looking slim. Can't order parts until I know the cause.
12-06-2004, 01:41 PM
#4
Yep . thats what happened to me , I was gonna reply when you first put this up . I don't know why I didnt . My cam was absolutely ruined . It is a safe bet to go ahead and get a new one . Also I had a panfull of needle bearings and chunks of lifter steel . What was so funny is , that it still had alot of power even though some of the lifters were toast . 
Originally Posted by Bill00Formula
Well, not sure the cause but many of the lifters were banged up (worn way down, rounded) and the cam was probably ruined as well. Kind of odd but seemed like the passenger side was damaged more than the drivers side. Valve float, too much pressure on the cam? Not sure. I'm bringing the cam and lifters to the engine builder tomorrow to see if he can tell what the caused this.
I wasn't able to get the lifters out easily because of the damage; must be flared out at the bottom. In fact one is so bad that I'm going to drop it down to where the cam sets and pick it up with a magnet.
Heads appear to be undamaged and no abnormal metal shavings in the oil. Did seem like a lot of normal kind of filings on the drain plug, guess that was part of the rollers on the lfters.
I'd like to get it back together for next saturday but it's looking slim. Can't order parts until I know the cause.
I wasn't able to get the lifters out easily because of the damage; must be flared out at the bottom. In fact one is so bad that I'm going to drop it down to where the cam sets and pick it up with a magnet.
Heads appear to be undamaged and no abnormal metal shavings in the oil. Did seem like a lot of normal kind of filings on the drain plug, guess that was part of the rollers on the lfters.
I'd like to get it back together for next saturday but it's looking slim. Can't order parts until I know the cause.
12-06-2004, 07:31 PM
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Have you done anything to resolve this?
Mike, the engine builder that I used, a good guy, was looking at the wear pattern on the valve guides and noted the lifter wasn't setting into the guide plate far enough which allowed them to turn. He called LG Motorsports and they had confirmed seeing this on a few cars. Some were even on stock cams. I'm no mechanic, but apparently to get the proper range of motion on a high lift cam the base circle is sometimes reduced. It really doesn't seem that it's enough of a reduction that it would cause a problem. Maybe this is a problem with the block?
The builder had a crane cam lifter (must be the new extended travel lifter?) and it was about 1/4" to 3/8" longer than the comp "R" so that maybe the solution? Only problem is they are expensive.
A friend, who is a very good mechanic, didn't think that this was the problem. He thinks that the pressure of the lifter on the cam and their flat surfaces are enough to hold a lifter in place as long as the surfaces are straight. Like I said, I'm not a mechanic so I have no idea who would be right.
Just kind of sucks.
Mike, the engine builder that I used, a good guy, was looking at the wear pattern on the valve guides and noted the lifter wasn't setting into the guide plate far enough which allowed them to turn. He called LG Motorsports and they had confirmed seeing this on a few cars. Some were even on stock cams. I'm no mechanic, but apparently to get the proper range of motion on a high lift cam the base circle is sometimes reduced. It really doesn't seem that it's enough of a reduction that it would cause a problem. Maybe this is a problem with the block?
The builder had a crane cam lifter (must be the new extended travel lifter?) and it was about 1/4" to 3/8" longer than the comp "R" so that maybe the solution? Only problem is they are expensive.
A friend, who is a very good mechanic, didn't think that this was the problem. He thinks that the pressure of the lifter on the cam and their flat surfaces are enough to hold a lifter in place as long as the surfaces are straight. Like I said, I'm not a mechanic so I have no idea who would be right.
Just kind of sucks.
12-08-2004, 09:09 AM
#6
Originally Posted by Bill00Formula
Have you done anything to resolve this?
Mike, the engine builder that I used, a good guy, was looking at the wear pattern on the valve guides and noted the lifter wasn't setting into the guide plate far enough which allowed them to turn. He called LG Motorsports and they had confirmed seeing this on a few cars. Some were even on stock cams. I'm no mechanic, but apparently to get the proper range of motion on a high lift cam the base circle is sometimes reduced. It really doesn't seem that it's enough of a reduction that it would cause a problem. Maybe this is a problem with the block?
The builder had a crane cam lifter (must be the new extended travel lifter?) and it was about 1/4" to 3/8" longer than the comp "R" so that maybe the solution? Only problem is they are expensive.
A friend, who is a very good mechanic, didn't think that this was the problem. He thinks that the pressure of the lifter on the cam and their flat surfaces are enough to hold a lifter in place as long as the surfaces are straight. Like I said, I'm not a mechanic so I have no idea who would be right.
Just kind of sucks.
Mike, the engine builder that I used, a good guy, was looking at the wear pattern on the valve guides and noted the lifter wasn't setting into the guide plate far enough which allowed them to turn. He called LG Motorsports and they had confirmed seeing this on a few cars. Some were even on stock cams. I'm no mechanic, but apparently to get the proper range of motion on a high lift cam the base circle is sometimes reduced. It really doesn't seem that it's enough of a reduction that it would cause a problem. Maybe this is a problem with the block?
The builder had a crane cam lifter (must be the new extended travel lifter?) and it was about 1/4" to 3/8" longer than the comp "R" so that maybe the solution? Only problem is they are expensive.
A friend, who is a very good mechanic, didn't think that this was the problem. He thinks that the pressure of the lifter on the cam and their flat surfaces are enough to hold a lifter in place as long as the surfaces are straight. Like I said, I'm not a mechanic so I have no idea who would be right.
Just kind of sucks.
I agree it does suck . Jeff Creech told me that there was a major lifter shortage around 1999 - 2001 and GM was using substandard lifters in their motors to get them out the door . There are only 3 lifter factories in the world and all 3 had some major **** go down which forced them to cease production of the lifters . Before my lifter came apart , it was making intermittant noises , and I just chose to ignore it simply because I had no idea it was a lifter coming apart . I have never seen one come apart like this one did . Collapse is one thing , but come apart like it exploded is another .
