Michael Ozorowsky

iTrader: (1)

THANK YOU hardtop. You cleared a LOT of my questions up.

>~ Double roller chains are NOT a pain to set up, the crank sprocket has >multiple slots for adjustment of timing, but if you want to use the factory >settings, there is a dot on one of the slots, you can't screw it up (hope I'm >making sense). IMO I recommend a double roller, added insurance, and they >are not THAT much more then the single. The only fitment issues with the >double roller is with the OLD STYLE ASP pullies, the newer styles will fit >without a problem. The old styles will still work fine, you just need to >machine the snout on the pulley in order for it to work.

I JUST ordered and put on my ASP pullies last month so I should be good right? Added insurance on what? The old 2 is better than 1 apply?

>~ Thunder Racing sells a complete head/cam swap kit with all the >necessary gaskets and new Crank bolt, but no heads bolts!

So $200 something for swap kit, plus another $200+ for studs!?!?!? I'm in SHOCK. Kind of like when you get a speeding ticket. It is what it is, but GOD, this is more than I wanted to spend right now.

Thank you all so much. I just about completely understand, just in shock a little. I thought this would all be a direct swap.

Michael Ozorowsky

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like double roller it is guys. Thank you.

Still deciding on stock head bolts, arp head studs, or arp head bolts

SidewaysTA

iTrader: (11)

You have to install spacers inbetween the oil pump and the block when using a double roller so that the oil pump clears the crank sprocket. The Rollmaster Double chain set comes with spacers so it's pretty straight forward.

Mike

Hardtop00SS

iTrader: (17)

The new style ASP will work ok, as long as it SFI Approved. I would double check with the company you ordered it from just to make sure.

The added insurance of the double roller is that, it's basically two timing chains together, much stronger then a single. All this is IMO, many guys use a single chain and have no problems with them, but when your revving 6K+, the last thing you want is a timing chain breaking. If you plan on buying a new chain, mine as well dig in your wallet a little more and get the double.

You don't HAVE to run studs, you can run either the ARP's or GM head bolts, I will be running either ARP or GM head bolts, no studs here.

SidewaysTA

iTrader: (11)

Stock bolts are the cheapest and will work just fine. That's what I would go with. If you're paranoid and feel like spending the extra money, get ARP.

Mike

Viper

iTrader: (6)

"I just about completely understand, just in shock a little."

WELCOME my friend to the world of the LS1 and mods.

It's VERY easy to sink 30K into these cars in mods in no time.

JohnnyStorm

iTrader: (2)

You might want to go to this site and see what your getting yourself into Mike.

http://www.ls1howto.com

A Heads, Cam, Timing Chain, and Oil Pump swap is a lot of WORK!! Especially, if as you have said, "I'm not a mechanic." Good luck.

Michael Ozorowsky

iTrader: (1)

Johnny: That is the site I will use. I have a pretty decent shop and am VERY confident in my wrench-turning abilities. Understanding everything is a different story. I live by the fact that there is always someone who did this stuff for a first time, might as well dive in and learn just like everyone else has. I know it's a lot of work, but I'm really looking forward to the whole experience.

I'm going to keep it simple and just get the double roller timing chain, but I'm still REALLY undecided on the bolts/studs. I would RATHER get the stock head bolts because hopefully this will be the first/last time of me pulling my heads. However, I like to do things right the first time, so I think I'm going to shell out and get the studs. Not really what I wanted to do, but I think I need to, in case I ever have to tear motor down in future.

5POINT7

Lot of good info in this thread. Wish I could have read it before blindly buying a Rollmaster double roller and ported LS6 oil pump with my cam from TSP.


FWIW, I still would have bought everything I did. It's just good to know more about it now.

Michael Ozorowsky

iTrader: (1)

Can we have a poll? Who would chose:

Stock head bolts

ARP head bolts

ARP head studs <--- Other than price, I am thinking about these.

5POINT7

I'd go with ARP bolts. For the rods: honestly how often do you plan on swapping heads? Be real.

SidewaysTA

iTrader: (11)

If I was gonna go with ARP I'd go with the bolts. Studs are overkill for this particular application.

Mike

BLASTER

iTrader: (4)

I just talked with TSP the other day and they said I really didn't need to get the oil pump and timing chain, actually talked me out of it. I figure I have the LS6 pump (car is a 2002 so it's just not ported) and my chain is only 14000 miles old (total on the car). I don't mind getting extra. Better to be safe then sorry. But does it need to be upgraded with my little milage on the car?

BTW, I'd getting the stud kit when I do the heads. If I have to dive in later on, then I dont have to worry about coolant getting in the bolt holes and cracking the block. If you've read through the install, you have to CLEAN those VERY GOOD. Sounds like those studs could save alot of time later on. Again, better safe then sorry.

RX-Ben

iTrader: (7)

A cheap timing chain alternative would be the LS2 chain- it appears to be stronger than the LS1 setup (it is bigger) and is less than $30 from SDPC.

eallanboggs

iTrader: (1)

If you actually think you might leave out a lifter or a pushrod chances are you will probably make some mistake that could necessistate a tear down and you should consider having someone around to look over your shoulder during your tear down. The gaskets can be used over EXCEPT the head gaskets or exhaust man gaskets due to heat. You'll be surprised how good the gaskets look after a tear down, but don't penny pinch on gaskets if you see a bad spot. The rocker gaskets swell up and if they pop out of their grooves they are useless. The Rollmaster is a good idea and not expensive as is a ported pump which will increase you pressure across the full range by a few pounds. You already have more than enough pressure, but if your doing a tear down and have the money put in a blueprinted pump. I like the CC Pro Mag 1.85s, but you also have to buy hardened pushrods with them so you will need a few dollars for this upgrade. Add some CC 918s, CNCed heads, Meziere water pump, cam, headers, PCM Tune. Now your talking. Just depends how deep your pockets are, but if your worried about leaving out a pushrod and having to then spend money to buy a new set of head bolts to solve that problem your missing the point. GMs are TTY, one time use. ARP bolts cost, but can be reused. How often are you going to do a tear down. ARP studs are for people who pull their heads off a lot like TF/D, TF/FC,TA/D and TA/FC and you don't run in that company so you don't NEED ARP studs, but if you have the money go for it.

Michael Ozorowsky

iTrader: (1)

ok eallen thank you. What I am going to do:

I will just get the arp bolts for their reusability. Hopefully this will be my first and last time pulling heads, but my motor has 62k on it now, and who knows when I'll need a rebuild, which I'll be pulling the motor myself. So I like the reusability of the arp's. Why are the arp's reusable anyway?

As far as oil pump, my pressure is REALLY good for some reason. I will stick with it. At half throttle, my oil pressure is almost at 60. Full throttle goes a little higher.

I think I can reuse my exhaust manifold gaskets. I bought the metal ones when I did myheaders and I am sure they are still fine. I don't even think they've been in there a year. I will look over them though. Also I will look over all gaskets, and see if any/which look bad, and I'll replace only the necessary ones.

I don't think I'll be leaving a pushrod out, but I just want to cover all bases, that if I forget something I don't have to go buy a new set of bolts immediately.

Thanks again everyone for all the great advice.

WS6FirebirdTA00

iTrader: (33)

you wont need new exhaust gaskets. prob just water pump and head gaskets unless you have somethign else leaking. how big is the cam your going to do? if you are gonna go for high power it might not be a bad idea gettin an ls6 oil pump thats ported and then not having to go back int there again to do it. its like 129.99 at tsp. but if your budget doesnt allow it its not like the one u have now is bad or anything. arp studs i am guessing are reusable because they arent torqe to yeild. with the factory bolts you actually are elongating them to keep higher seating pressure at the base of the bolt head and in the threads to keep the head from comming loose. remember the motor pretty much is trying to blow the heads off the car but the piston goes back down easier but the force is still on the head. now if the bolts couldnt maintian a high enough opposite force then your screwed with no power, compression and lots of things lol let us know how it goes. im about to do fms cam and afr heads on mine in spring time

P Mack

iTrader: (6)

If you want to keep the install simple, leave your stock timing chain and oil pump alone. That way you won't have to deal with the oil pump pickup tube and oring and all that crap. I got the doubleroller and oil pump and it probably made the cam install take twice as long, although i do like the peace of mind that comes with a double roller.

WS6FirebirdTA00

iTrader: (33)

you gotta get a new timing chain i wouldnt reuse that one. esp for how cheap you can get a new single ls2 for

Michael Ozorowsky

iTrader: (1)

yep. I'm getting the double roller timing chain. Any insurance I can get will work for me.