Well I desided to go with absolute myself. It was up in the air for me to between those two but I heard alot of good stuff from my friends about absolutes 6.0l heads <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> . Cant wait till I get them. Hello 10s on street tires <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> .

 

I've been sitting the fence on H&C for my car. Also wanting to finish the suspension on my car before before going into the motor.

TEA and JPR are my front runners. I want to go with something proven locally. You can't learn everything on the net. I don't have time nor money to R&D. Lonslo and LowETz are local and run good times with TEAs. I've meet LowEtz and he knows his crap, been there done that.

JPR is building a good reputation with the TR cams close to what you are asking about. My passion and direction for the car is road racing, and the smaller 224 cams have a good midrange, easy on springs, and very drivable.

 

hey low etz,
so you are saying that all of the thunder racing cams, as well as lg motorsports cams, wont work unless the heads are done 1st? well that makes no sence at all, why would they mass produce such proven cam specs if you need to make a custom cam for ported heads. wow i guess all of those cams were intended for stock heads <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Absolute Speed has tested many different cams with their heads. Its how the flow #s will vary for each cam, you would want a nice high 600 # for a high lift cam right? and for a low lift cam you would want it to peak more in the 500 range.
you also controdicted your self by saying you match the cam to the heads then said how brent will custom port you a set of heads for your cam. so then i guess they wont be cnc'ing that set. or would they cnc it then do additional porting? how much port volume will these heads end up having?

 

I'm right in the middle of this same decision! Damn, this sucks.. As of right now though, I'm leaning more towards TEA.


TEA Pro's:

1. CNC ported (very consistent #'s)
2. Comp 987 dual springs included
3. 5.3 castings, only require .015 milling for 11:1 compression vs. LS1 5.7 castings .030+ (PISTON TO VALVE!)
4. AMAZING exhaust side flow, even way above anyone's LS6 #'s
5. Local to me!!

First off, let me say that I don't think you could truly go "wrong" with any of these products, but in my mind, TEA makes a more consistent, superior product. The only change up I may make at this point would be if I decided to go with some stage 2 GTP's. I just don't know enough un-biased info about them.

<small>[ April 21, 2003, 05:05 PM: Message edited by: 1999_SS_M6 ]</small>

 

also, can someone tell me why the Absolute heads have a lower exhaust flow but kick butt on the intake side?

TEA averages like 250 on the exhuast to AS's 225 or so

 

For one thing, they are using completely different castings. TEA is using a 5.3L casting, and Absolute is using a 5.7L casting. I think that probably accounts for most of it.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 1999_SS_M6:
<strong> For one thing, they are using completely different castings. TEA is using a 5.3L casting, and Absolute is using a 5.7L casting. I think that probably accounts for most of it. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">are there any major downfalls to them having the lower exhuast flow over TEA's for a NA car?

 

SO THE TEA 1.5 AND STAGE 2 HEADS ARE 5.3 CASTINGS?OR ARE THEY 5.7 ALSO WOULDNT THE 5.3 GIVE YOU HIGHER COMPRESSION?

 

Yes there is a downfall... its the same with the intake. What if the intake flows less, would it hurt? Answer that and you'll answer your question <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

I like the TEA heads because of the consistancy. Hand ported heads arent as consistant as a machine thats hand finished. Youll get the SAME result for every runner.

TEA uses the 5.3 casting on request. Its not standard. With the 5.3s the exhaust side will outflow ALOT of heads which helps get rid of the gases. It also uses a special CNC program for the 5.3 chamber. Also you dont have to mill them or mill VERY little to have 11:1 compression. With a LS1 head you have to mill them a bit, then worry about P2V clearence. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

 

I just ordered a set of 5.3 Stg 1.5 from Brent at TEA and he told me that they will mill the heads .0010 and that will yield a compression ratio of 10.8 to 1. The only downside that I can see to using the 5.3 heads on my 98 Z28 is that I will have to get new center bolt valve covers instead of using the 5.7 valve covers I already have.

 

I'm having Absolute do my 5.3 heads and I see where people are saying for 11.0:1 CR the heads need to be milled but I think (not real sure) that he told me the chambers actually need to be opened up and not milled. Which is it?

 

so its better to have heads which flow good on both the exhaust and intake then. Even if there numbers might peak a little less on the intake side.

also which CR is better for NA? 10.8 or 11.1?

 

mike m.....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">hey low etz,
so you are saying that all of the thunder racing cams, as well as lg motorsports cams, wont work unless the heads are done 1st? well that makes no sence at all, why would they mass produce such proven cam specs if you need to make a custom cam for ported heads. wow i guess all of those cams were intended for stock heads </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No....I didn't say that, and no again....all of those cams were not intended for stock heads <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Its how the flow #s will vary for each cam, you would want a nice high 600 # for a high lift cam right? and for a low lift cam you would want it to peak more in the 500 range.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">you also controdicted your self by saying you match the cam to the heads then said how brent will custom port you a set of heads for your cam. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nope. Did not contradict myself, but thanx for caring <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_images/icons/tongue.gif" />

What I said was :

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">First.....you normally match the cam to the heads. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I realize I'm probably a little too "old school" for most on this board, but back in the day when factory head spec tolerances were not what they are today....and then proceeded to hog the $h!t out of heads that did not have the luxery of a CNC port, you matched the cam to the head, and it's flow charactoristics. Period.

Yes....I did also say Brent could/would build a set of heads around any given cam to maximize the rwhp effort if indeed any given cam was already in place.

I am not saying aftermarket cams will not work w/a stock headed motor......sure....they will work. How well? Well enough to show a gain. I showed a gain when the first set of SII's went on. Then had TEA build my heads around the existing cam and made 25/21 respectively. Are you saying that brand X head paired to brand Y cam is a better way to maximize power vs. matching the cam to the head? Sorry <img border="0" alt="[bullshit]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_bs.gif" /> .....still don't buy it. Why do you suppose the vendors that are making power sell their power as a package? Hmmmm.......must be so they can be sure they're selling you mis-matched pieces.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">so then i guess they wont be cnc'ing that set. or would they cnc it then do additional porting? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wrong again. They will CNC the head, then finish up by hand to take full advantage of the cam specs you provided.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">how much port volume will these heads end up having?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Negligable at best.

Look, I'm not TEA's bitch.....I just know what I know, and strive to learn a new trick daily. I've been down the road and back, and just stating what has or has not worked for me. Your results may vary.

Take anything I say with a grain of salt unless you know it to be absolutly true or false. In the meantime, I'll be at the track <img border="0" alt="[evil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" /> ....where will you be <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ April 21, 2003, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: LowETz ]</small>

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 99 TA:
<strong> I'm having Absolute do my 5.3 heads and I see where people are saying for 11.0:1 CR the heads need to be milled but I think (not real sure) that he told me the chambers actually need to be opened up and not milled. Which is it? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">"Opening" up the chamber, or making it bigger doesn't raise compression, it lowers it. He definitely meant that the MILL the deck surface to decrease the combustion chamber volume and raise compression. He may well have said that they do some blending, or light clean-up to the combustion chambers, but that isn't to gain CR.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 98TAauto:
<strong> so its better to have heads which flow good on both the exhaust and intake then. Even if there numbers might peak a little less on the intake side.

also which CR is better for NA? 10.8 or 11.1? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, all things being equal, higher flow numbers are good, but there is a lot more to it. You have to watch that your port volume doesn't get too large, you need to be careful that you don't remove material from the wrong part of the passage and hurt intake charge velocity, and about a million other things that make up for the reason these guys get thousands of dollars for their work. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

As far as what compression ratio is better, that's not a question you can just answer off the cuff either. First off, you have to know what octane fuels are available to you in the first place, cuz 11.0:1 CR isn't going to be happy on a diet of 89 octane. 11.0:1 is 91 octane MINIMUM, and you'd be safer on 94, especially if you're going to try to tune in some timing advance. Other than that, think of power adders you might want in the future, because even with 10.8:1, 8+ PSI of boost, or a 150+ shot are going to play hell with your head gaskets.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 99 TA:
<strong> I'm having Absolute do my 5.3 heads and I see where people are saying for 11.0:1 CR the heads need to be milled but I think (not real sure) that he told me the chambers actually need to be opened up and not milled. Which is it? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">"Opening" up the chamber, or making it bigger doesn't raise compression, it lowers it. He definitely meant that the MILL the deck surface to decrease the combustion chamber volume and raise compression. He may well have said that they do some blending, or light clean-up to the combustion chambers, but that isn't to gain CR.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 98TAauto:
<strong> so its better to have heads which flow good on both the exhaust and intake then. Even if there numbers might peak a little less on the intake side.

also which CR is better for NA? 10.8 or 11.1? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, all things being equal, higher flow numbers are good, but there is a lot more to it. You have to watch that your port volume doesn't get too large, you need to be careful that you don't remove material from the wrong part of the passage and hurt intake charge velocity, and about a million other things that make up for the reason these guys get thousands of dollars for their work. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

As far as what compression ratio is better, that's not a question you can just answer off the cuff either. First off, you have to know what octane fuels are available to you in the first place, cuz 11.0:1 CR isn't going to be happy on a diet of 89 octane. 11.0:1 is 91 octane MINIMUM, and you'd be safer on 94, especially if you're going to try to tune in some timing advance. Other than that, think of power adders you might want in the future, because even with 10.8:1, 8+ PSI of boost, or a 150+ shot are going to play hell with your head gaskets.

 

Well im seriously never gonna run power adders in the future. Also i only run 93 octane. The car has never seen 89 or below <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />

I just cant figure out if its better to go with AS's heads with the killer intake flow but low exhuast, or TEA's which has good flow and excellent exhaust <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />


HELP <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

 

quantify "good" flow vs. "awesome" flow on the intake side? I spoke with Brent from TEA today, and he said if his stage 1.5 heads don't flow 300cfm @.600 lift, as a MINIMUM, he won't ship them, they go back on the bench for a clean up. I mean, 300cfm @ .600 is pretty much the benchmark. It's not like Head Porter "A" gets 300cfm at .600 lift and Head Porter "B" gets 340cfm at .600 lift.. and if he was getting 340, it wouldn't be at the same intake port volume as the guy getting 300cfm.

It's easy to get caught up in flow numbers, or "racing flow benches" as people like to call it. Real world, no tricks dyno numbers and 1/4 mi. Trap speeds are a better indicator of what combo is working.

 

I went with Absolute S2 5.3s. His low-lift numbers are awesome, as well as the high-lift numbers. TEA uses a pipe when they flow their exhaust ports, and Absolute does not. This accounts for the artificially high exhaust numbers you see in TEA heads. CNC porting is great... unless you get core shift. How does the machine know to compensate for this? Jay flows each and every port to make sure they are consistent. Also, he gets these flow numbers with ports that displace 209cc's. Thats only 4cc's larger than stock. Can you say velocity? I looked into this quite a bit before making my decision. It came down to TEA or Absolute. I went with Absolute, and I would do it again, Absolutely... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 1999_SS_M6:
<strong> quantify "good" flow vs. "awesome" flow on the intake side? I spoke with Brent from TEA today, and he said if his stage 1.5 heads don't flow 300cfm @.600 lift, as a MINIMUM, he won't ship them, they go back on the bench for a clean up. I mean, 300cfm @ .600 is pretty much the benchmark. It's not like Head Porter "A" gets 300cfm at .600 lift and Head Porter "B" gets 340cfm at .600 lift.. and if he was getting 340, it wouldn't be at the same intake port volume as the guy getting 300cfm.

It's easy to get caught up in flow numbers, or "racing flow benches" as people like to call it. Real world, no tricks dyno numbers and 1/4 mi. Trap speeds are a better indicator of what combo is working. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">From the searches I have done most TEA's flow 298-301 on the intake and 250-255 on the exhaust. The Absolute speed headsa are all flowing 300-310 on the intake and 220-226 on the exhuast side. I agree this is becoming more of a which has the best braggin rights doing flow comparsions.

I need to see some et's with the 1.5 TEA heads also. I see one with the AS heads runnin 11.04@121 in his A4!

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Hitman#1:
<strong> I went with Absolute S2 5.3s. His low-lift numbers are awesome, as well as the high-lift numbers. TEA uses a pipe when they flow their exhaust ports, and Absolute does not. It came down to TEA or Absolute. I went with Absolute, and I would do it again, Absolutely... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">you just answered my questions... now i know why <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> Thanks man... Jay is emailin me back and forth so his service is awesome <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />

Both are top notch.. I may try AS just to have something different from all the other TEA cars out there <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />