1999_SS_M6

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Hitman#1:
<strong> CNC porting is great... unless you get core shift. How does the machine know to compensate for this? Jay flows each and every port to make sure they are consistent. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That just sounds like a way for a guy that bought hand ported heads to reassure himself that he got the best bang for his $1,600 dollars. I was on the phone with the owner of LS1 speed today for over an hour and he dynos everything from GTP, MTI, Absolute, TEA, Cartek, and every other Tom Dick and Harry that ports heads, and what he told me was that of ALL the heads he dynos, TEA was hands down the most consistent. He claimed that of ALL the TEA heads that have been dyno'd in his shop, the variance from head to head has never varied more than 9 rwhp on his dyno. Dozens of cylinder heads, 9 rwhp variance? Sounds like "core shift" isn't much of a problem to me... maybe I'm wrong.

I wonder if Absolute or any of the other hand porters will guarantee <10 rwhp deviation from one set of heads to the next?

The more research I do, the more it looks like despite technical merits, decisions are being made to buy brand X just so you aren't like all the other guys running brand Y. <img border="0" alt="[boring]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_zzz.gif" />

Hitman#1

iTrader: (1)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 1999_SS_M6:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Hitman#1:
<strong> CNC porting is great... unless you get core shift. How does the machine know to compensate for this? Jay flows each and every port to make sure they are consistent. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That just sounds like a way for a guy that bought hand ported heads to reassure himself that he got the best bang for his $1,600 dollars. I was on the phone with the owner of LS1 speed today for over an hour and he dynos everything from GTP, MTI, Absolute, TEA, Cartek, and every other Tom Dick and Harry that ports heads, and what he told me was that of ALL the heads he dynos, TEA was hands down the most consistent. He claimed that of ALL the TEA heads that have been dyno'd in his shop, the variance from head to head has never varied more than 9 rwhp on his dyno. Dozens of cylinder heads, 9 rwhp variance? Sounds like "core shift" isn't much of a problem to me... maybe I'm wrong.

I wonder if Absolute or any of the other hand porters will guarantee <10 rwhp deviation from one set of heads to the next?

The more research I do, the more it looks like despite technical merits, decisions are being made to buy brand X just so you aren't like all the other guys running brand Y. <img border="0" alt="[boring]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_zzz.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wow, only 9hp difference between heads, huh? I guess that means irregardless of camshaft choice as well? Boy, did I ever make a mistake. Who knew you could put a set of TEA heads on and not even need to change cams?

Also: That's great that they are so consistent, but what if they're all consistently dynoing LOW? Gee, how cool would that be? Yep, they don't make any power, but they SURE ARE CONSISTENT at it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_images/icons/tongue.gif" />

BTW, Larry's cool and all, but the guy sells a TON of TEA heads. What did you expect him to say?

Terry Burger

iTrader: (4)

Both shops seem good, but I think you'll need a stronger cam to run 10s. MMS has a sale going on for their proven 10 second heads/cam combo. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

horist

TEA <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> I've gotta set of TEA S2 5.3L heads I bought last year (november)... finally putting them on my car this week <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> The way I look at it... a machine (CNC) doesn't have good weeks or bad weeks... put the head on, it does its job... finish w/a hand port and flow ... awesome product every time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

98TAauto

iTrader: (2)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Terry Burger:
<strong> Both shops seem good, but I think you'll need a stronger cam to run 10s. MMS has a sale going on for their proven 10 second heads/cam combo. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">JMF(sp) went 11.04 with a TR224, 4400 stall, FLP's, and 3.23's i believe with AS heads <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Id be happy with sub 11.2's <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

1999_SS_M6

First off, I never even mentioned camshafts and how they pertained to the combinations because I assumed that everone reading the post would be intelligent enough to know that he was only including like combinations in his dyno comparison, but since you bring it up, he said that 90% of the combinations they were installing/dynoing were with a TR224 equivalent cam. I think we can assume that he's intelligent enough to compare apples to apples... or maybe you think this guy is drunk on the job and meant that a stock cam with TEA stage 1.5s will be within + or - 9 HP of any custom cam grind ever conceived of for the LS1... come on, was that really even worth the time you took to post it?

Second, who do you know of that's running TEA heads and complaining of "low numbers" or who is in any way disappointed with the product? If you know something I don't, chime right in, cuz I must've missed the post. Is there any basis for that "what if" scenario you proposed, or are you just a sucker for playing devil's advocate? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

If you ever get tired of hypothesizing, or playing "what if" why don't you call LS1 speed and ask them like I did. Geez man, I'm just telling you what I was told by a very reputable sponsor, it's not like I'm making this **** up as I go...

And as far as "what did I expect him to tell me" goes, I had no expectations. However, you might be interested to know that he pointed me towards GTP for cylinder heads saying that I could probably expect higher peak #'s. Sorry to burst your bubble.. Anyway, why don't you actually take a look at his site, cuz apparently you think he sells TEA exclusively or something... He sells TEA, Cartek, GTP, RGR, etc. But I guess you're right, since you're implying he would purposely mislead me just to make a buck, and assuming he was doing that I guess it would make the most sense for him to be pushing his LEAST expensive cylinder head, huh? I mean, from a business perspective it does make sense, you're always going to have the highest profit margin in your your lowest cost product, right?? riiiiiiiight... <img border="0" alt="[bang head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" />

Hardtop

iTrader: (3)

Both heads are a great value for the money. I went with TEA and highly recommend them. Their customer service is top notch. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> Regarding flow numbers, too many get caught up with this, just like dyno numbers. Unless the heads are flowed on the same bench you don't have a valid comparison. Same with dyno numbers. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

Bruce

98TAauto

iTrader: (2)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 1999_SS_M6:
<strong> If you don't believe me, go look in the back right corner of your girlfriend's sock drawer... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LMAO <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

there is one thing I do like about guys that dont use CNC. They have a down home type business. So im sure they give the best effort they can on every head to make sure its perfect and flows the way they want them. Yes machines may be more consistent, but i like the guys that try to beat machines. Its just a different peice of mind I guess. Besides, you neve rknow when i CNC could get a little virus and go wacko <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Ive just gotten off the phone with Jay and im prety sure its a done deal. He's top notch and great guy!

<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" /> Im ABSOLUTELY happy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Beast96Z

iTrader: (21)

I'm pretty sure the diffrence in exaust flow is because TEA uses an extension on there exausr to flow. This is going to net a better exaust flow. This aggravated alot of LT-1 guys cause they said there exaust flowed 230 cfm, but they didn't understand why there cars didn't perform well with single pattern cams. It's cause the heads didn't really flow 230. Someone should talk with TEA on this issue, cause it could cause some people to buy under false impressions.

Hitman#1

iTrader: (1)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 1999_SS_M6:
<strong> But I guess you're right, since you're implying he would purposely mislead me just to make a buck, and assuming he was doing that I guess it would make the most sense for him to be pushing his LEAST expensive cylinder head, huh? I mean, from a business perspective it does make sense, you're always going to have the highest profit margin in your your lowest cost product, right?? riiiiiiiight... <img border="0" alt="[bang head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Is Larry porting these heads himself or is he buying them from TEA? He's buying them from TEA, so depending on what kind of deal he's getting from Brian Tooley, he could very well have the highest profit margin in those heads. I'm not saying that he mislead you, or that the information he gave you isn't 100% factual, but I DO question the motives of salesmen. I'm a cynic by nature. Sorry...

BTW, when making a blanket statement like: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">He claimed that of ALL the TEA heads that have been dyno'd in his shop, the variance from head to head has never varied more than 9 rwhp on his dyno. Dozens of cylinder heads, 9 rwhp variance?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You'd better mention what the combo is, as it is never safe to "assume" that somebody wont pick apart your post because it lacks technical data.

GrannySShifting

iTrader: (10)

Flow numbers are bunk unless you have two heads on same bench and know port volume, and that only begins to give you a good idea of a head.

mike m

iTrader: (6)

hey low etz

quote:
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so then i guess they wont be cnc'ing that set. or would they cnc it then do additional porting?
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Wrong again. They will CNC the head, then finish up by hand to take full advantage of the cam specs you provided.

same difference huh, or is porting and cleaning up by hand different? do they have real gritty hands? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_images/icons/tongue.gif" />

oh and where will I be, at the track also <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

98TAauto

iTrader: (2)

ok everyone play nice now since this post wasnt attended to cause hard feelings <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" /> This is all very good info on the other hand also!

1999_SS_M6

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by mike m:
<strong> Wrong again. They will CNC the head, then finish up by hand to take full advantage of the cam specs you provided.

same difference huh, or is porting and cleaning up by hand different? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Personally, I don't consider that "same difference" at all. So they do a little hand blending and optimizing after the the head comes off the lathe to massage the numbers one way or another at a given lift.. 99% of the material was removed with exact duplication to their port design, and with exacting robotic precision. The last 1% of finesse is just overkill for an already great head.

There are INFINITELY more variables when 100% of the material is being removed by hand.. Robots don't sneeze, robots don't come in to work hung over (lol), robots don't get grit in their eyes... I know I'm being kind of ridiculous, but the point stands. Precision is precision, and man loses to machine every day. If you don't believe me, go look in the back right corner of your girlfriend's sock drawer... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />