Just thought I'd let everyone know....
03-13-2005, 11:09 PM
#41
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Fairview Heights Illinois
Posts: 1,851
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by sevanseriesta
Well let me make a very good point here and let lvmyz28 how foolish it would be to re-use a stock head bolt.
I recently did a cam swap and pulled the heads to install new lifters. In the process of putting the heads back on we snapped one of the Brand new bolts at less then 50lft lbs of perssure. Keep in mind that this bolt is brand new. This was on the second round of tightning and snaped it inside the block.
Now how in the hell would you think that using a stock bolt AGAIN would be smart.
I recently did a cam swap and pulled the heads to install new lifters. In the process of putting the heads back on we snapped one of the Brand new bolts at less then 50lft lbs of perssure. Keep in mind that this bolt is brand new. This was on the second round of tightning and snaped it inside the block.
Now how in the hell would you think that using a stock bolt AGAIN would be smart.
Well you did something more foolish that reusing TTY bolts by not cleaning the threads in the block properly before installing the new ones.
That again proves nothing and is junk science.
Some of you smart guys aren't as smart as you think you are.
When that guy hits over 500hp without a gasket failure we will both be laughing at you all.
edit: yep reusing head gaskets can work too.
03-14-2005, 01:36 AM
#42
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Idaho
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by white2001s10
Exactly right.
I would put money up that none of the people badmouthing the guy have any real-world test data of their own to back up their belief that reusing stock bolts will cause a gasket failure. This means their own knowledge is second hand and partly heresay, much of which comes from the establishments that have money to gain by selling more head-bolts.
Whoever thinks that repeating these so-called facts has anything to do with science is sadly mistaken.
Now if we had 100 members reuse stock bolts, and another 100 members use new bolts, and then the used group had a significantly higher failure rate,
then that would indeed be fact and proof that there is something to the theory.
Funny thing is that I'd also bet money that there wouldn't be a significant difference in the failure rate. Those results would make some professed know-it-alls look pretty silly, but that's how it goes with true science sometimes. It doesn't always work out in the real world like you think it will.
I definately give the guy credit for trying it and actually putting the idea to the test. Experimentation and science should be encouraged. After all, it's not going to cost any of you guys if his experiment fails, so you shouldn't be crying about it.
I would put money up that none of the people badmouthing the guy have any real-world test data of their own to back up their belief that reusing stock bolts will cause a gasket failure. This means their own knowledge is second hand and partly heresay, much of which comes from the establishments that have money to gain by selling more head-bolts.
Whoever thinks that repeating these so-called facts has anything to do with science is sadly mistaken.
Now if we had 100 members reuse stock bolts, and another 100 members use new bolts, and then the used group had a significantly higher failure rate,
then that would indeed be fact and proof that there is something to the theory.
Funny thing is that I'd also bet money that there wouldn't be a significant difference in the failure rate. Those results would make some professed know-it-alls look pretty silly, but that's how it goes with true science sometimes. It doesn't always work out in the real world like you think it will.
I definately give the guy credit for trying it and actually putting the idea to the test. Experimentation and science should be encouraged. After all, it's not going to cost any of you guys if his experiment fails, so you shouldn't be crying about it.
The point of this thred was not to say that spending $30.00 on a new set of bolts was stupid. Neither was it to say that re-using the stock bolts was a smart thing to do. The point to this thred was to get the point across that just because someone says you can't do something on a message board dosn't mean you really can't. I'm tired of reading threds that people post up where they read something and all of a sudden think they know everything about it. Can a TTY bolt be re-used as a TTY bolt? NO! Can it be torqued down to a specific torque and yeild that torque properly? YES!!! Just because the bolt has been yeilded and stretched to it's limit dosn't mean that it can't be used. All it means is you can't stress that bolt to it's yeild point ever again! It's fun to read all the flaming. Like stated, this is a TECH website. Not an opinion debate! I put the bolts to the test and they passed so far! That's real world not opinion!
03-14-2005, 02:42 AM
#43
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (10)
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: North Texas
Posts: 8,009
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm with Brien here, I'll be replacing quite a few of my stock bolts over time as I do no like the possibility of snapping them. My bolts for my headers were a PITA enough as it was.
03-14-2005, 02:46 AM
#44
TECH Senior Member
The initial post was in attack mode.
Like I stated before. If the thread was put forward as "experiment" or something, we are open to new methods and ideas.
I personally would have hailed him as a pioneer.
The fact is he attacked and got responses.
The way you put things across has a lot to do with responses in general.
Like I stated before. If the thread was put forward as "experiment" or something, we are open to new methods and ideas.
I personally would have hailed him as a pioneer.
The fact is he attacked and got responses.
The way you put things across has a lot to do with responses in general.
03-14-2005, 04:45 AM
#46
TECH Apprentice
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: My Garage!
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
oh ok... i get it now.
I agree, like stated before, he should have worded things differently. However I was unaware that it makes it ok for us to lower ourselves to his level and start bashing. Lets just correct him, warn others of the bad info, and then move on. What is so hard about that?
I'm done here guys. You can have this thread all to yourselves. I have more important "tech" to read.
I agree, like stated before, he should have worded things differently. However I was unaware that it makes it ok for us to lower ourselves to his level and start bashing. Lets just correct him, warn others of the bad info, and then move on. What is so hard about that?
I'm done here guys. You can have this thread all to yourselves. I have more important "tech" to read.
03-14-2005, 05:04 AM
#47
TECH Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,157
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
The initial post was in attack mode.
Like I stated before. If the thread was put forward as "experiment" or something, we are open to new methods and ideas.
I personally would have hailed him as a pioneer.
The fact is he attacked and got responses.
The way you put things across has a lot to do with responses in general.
Like I stated before. If the thread was put forward as "experiment" or something, we are open to new methods and ideas.
I personally would have hailed him as a pioneer.
The fact is he attacked and got responses.
The way you put things across has a lot to do with responses in general.
I agree. Trying new things is great but this is proven. Cutting corners to save money in places like this is not a good idea.
The initial attitude of the first post was a in your face approach. Thats why the flaming started. If he would have said..."I reused my stock bolts will I be alright..." I would have said no.
03-14-2005, 09:00 AM
#48
Originally Posted by Lvmyz28
The point to this thred was to get the point across that just because someone says you can't do something on a message board dosn't mean you really can't. I'm tired of reading threds that people post up where they read something and all of a sudden think they know everything about it.
I'll report back in a few hours......
03-14-2005, 10:35 AM
#51
Update: Been about an hour and a half since project "Prove 'em wrong, rat poison won't kill you" has begun, and I'm happy to say, so far so good. Sure, my vision is blurry, I am vomiting blood, my nose and ears will not stop bleeding, and I can't feel my feet, but other than thet, no ill effects to report. 
I'll post back up in a few more hours.....
Seriously, this whole thing is retarded. Can you reuse stock head bolts? Sure. Should you reuse stock head bolts? Absolutely not. Period, end of story. Despite what some shadetree mechanic may think/say, the fact is these bolts were NOT meant to be reused, and doing so is assuming an unnecessary risk.
Shawn
I'll post back up in a few more hours.....
Seriously, this whole thing is retarded. Can you reuse stock head bolts? Sure. Should you reuse stock head bolts? Absolutely not. Period, end of story. Despite what some shadetree mechanic may think/say, the fact is these bolts were NOT meant to be reused, and doing so is assuming an unnecessary risk.
Shawn
03-14-2005, 11:37 AM
#52
TECH Addict
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Fat Chance Hotel
Posts: 2,336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Lvmyz28
All it means is you can't stress that bolt to it's yeild point ever again!
I'm not sure why this debate is constantly re-visited. Torque-to-yield fasteners are not to be re-used. End of story. This wasn't created to suck more money out of your pockets.
And for those who believe their ARP bolts will last forever. You need to realize they won't. Any experienced engine builder will tell you to replace regular fasteners after so many re-uses.
03-14-2005, 11:51 AM
#54
What about studs? Do they fall into this same category that they should only be used for a certain amount of time?
I thought a stud put a lot less strain on the 'bolt' and threads and spread the load over the entire length of the bolt.
Thanks
I thought a stud put a lot less strain on the 'bolt' and threads and spread the load over the entire length of the bolt.
Thanks
03-14-2005, 11:56 AM
#55
TECH Addict
iTrader: (59)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Vance, Alabama
Posts: 2,357
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SPANKYS next post:
I am bob......my name is mukkdd eeekjf;W ;oAASDLl;io;aWRJ ojkafk;k .........
Funny stuff. Yes, all ARP fasteners are recommended to be check between uses for stretch.
I am bob......my name is mukkdd eeekjf;W ;oAASDLl;io;aWRJ ojkafk;k .........
Funny stuff. Yes, all ARP fasteners are recommended to be check between uses for stretch.
