You lost my respect at , Every link posted, even the one TY_TY posted states that nitrous increases
cylinder pressure.

Now I know I'm talking to a novice.

You just contradicted yourself. You need to add more fuel to compliment
the oxygen density...so guess what? YOu have a higher effective compression
if there's extra fuel!

 

ok **** face.... this is what we are saying "yes we are running 11.5+ CR and 200+ shot with a stand alone with 100+ oct. in it."

now go back and suck on your mid 12's thumb.

why you sit there and tell us we are wrong with many people hitting 9's on street cars blows my mind... obviously if we are doing something wrong we dont give a **** because we are going fast.

 

someone just delete this whole post of crap.

 

**** face, what is your resulting Dynamic Compression?!

How many times have I asked for cam specs?

Call me so I can record your pathetic explanation for the world to hear.

I'd like to hear you sputter your way through a tech conversation with me.

UNDERSTAND what you're being asked. "Some" of you guys are thinking
in this little box and can't grasp what I'm asking you.

Then you bitch about not lowering compression with N20, but then you say
you're spraying with 100+ stand alone.

Pretty ignorant to call me **** face when you just proved yourself wrong.

 

I really don't feel like getting into a bitch fest so I will just point out some of the (not all) the things you want to look at.


Combustion Chamber Design and Efficency
Flame Area
Piston Design
Quench Height
Cooling
Coatings
Evans Coolant and Waterpumps
Proper Camshaft
Correct "Tuning"

No one part is going to make a system like this work out.

There is no safe SCR # that should be run on the street on 93 octane, however a 13.5:1 SCR motor that runs on 93 may not be as streetable as an 11.5:1 SCR motor that runs on 93.

Floyd.


btw

~12.12:1 on a 346 CID LS1 on 93

 

I don't really know have enough technical knowledge to debate the subject with you. All I can tell you is waht works it my car 12:1 + pump gas + 100 shot = 500 rwhp with no knock. What it would make on lower compresion and more timing I don't know. I do know on motor the 6 degrees thet were removed for the 200 shot tune made minimal difference. Maybe someone will take your advice and build a lower compression motor with more timing in the tune so we can find out. I do think the magizine racers would ease off of you if you softened the chip on your shoulder. Most people don't like to be treated like idiots because there opinion is different than yours. I am sure if you asked ten different engine builders you would end up with 10 ideas on what is best.

 

You're talking about the one that he highlighted the section in red, right? I just re-read it 3 times. If you're right I'd really like you to point it out to me, where in there does it say that before the charge is ignited there is a 'boost' in compression? Maybe I'm still having a hard time reading after my eye surgery, but all I can find is where it mentions higher cylinder pressures after the charge has been ignited which is exactly what I said in my last post...

 

I'm curious to know why this guy is hell bent on thinking dropping compression and advancing timing is better for making power while using pump gas. I'm sorry, but that is just a crutch; you are igniting the fuel/air mixture early to prevent any possible "damaging" preignition from occuring by firing the cylinder off when it's at top dead center and expecting this to yield more power? You get far more power by increasing the compression, than you ever would advancing spark timing. SBC, LS1 whatever, if maximum power on pump gas is your goal, you will want to run MORE compression, back timing a bit, and minimize piston dwell (the time where detonation has the largest likelihood of occuring). The "problem" with this, is that you need to have an accurate and precision tune which is asking too much from most people. Floyd has listed the major factors for making a high compression pump gas motor. By making an efficient motor which fills the cylinder fast, ignites the fuel air with no obstructions like domes, and bleeds off pressure as fast as possible after ignition, you can bring the conditions within the cylinder as close to ideal as possible for complete timed, combustion.

 

Link:

http://www.noswizard.com/technical.php

This is why you gap your plugs tighter when you spray...because there is
pressure increase BEFORE ignition and AFTER ignition.

 

go away

 

the pressure increase before ignition is negligible compared to the pressure increase after ignition. the evolution of CO2 gas from the combustion reaction is what creates the most pressure in the cylinder; that's what can blow weak head gaskets, break cranks, etc. if it's not bled off properly. Remember kinetic energy? Once the spark ignites, and the fuel air explodes, the energy of the explosion has already been put on the piston. getting rid of that gas as fast as possible can reduce stress on the moving parts. It's pretty simple concepts here. To run high compression on pump gas, you need to efficiently move air in and out of the engine, with minimum time spent at TDC. Will a 13:1 compression motor with domed pistons and a long *** rod make more power than a 13:1 matched rod, pump gas motor? Yes, but will it be more efficient? Not a chance in hell, and when talking about street motors, a pump gas engine is all that matters. the Long rod 13:1 domed engine will be FAR more octane sensative than the 13:1 pump gas motor as a result of increased inefficiency.

 

I have no idea what you just stated, but in any case it doesn't make sense.

Timing is advanced to give the charge time to expand and place the peak
of the combustion event just as the piston reaches it's most effective crank
angle.

Early timing starts the combustion process as the piston moves toward TDC
and as the charge combusts and expands, it pushes the piston down creating
force. If the timing is placed correctly, the punch of the combustion should
occur before (near) the crank angle that transfers the most linear force to
torque at the crank arm.

Do you thinking adding half point of compression is more effective than placing
the charge energy within 2 degrees of best force?

Exactly. That's why people take the easy way out. Therefore, you now
agree that it's not the best method, or do you like to contradict yourself as well?

 

Gee, I had no idea? Who would have thought a pre-ignited cylinder pressure
of 300 PSI is negligible compared to 1200+ PSI of combustion force?

I guess that's why they call one the compression stroke, and the other a power stroke?

Bled properly? Correct me if I'm wrong, but both valves are fully closed for
most of the compression and power stroke? Would you like the exhaust valve to open much sooner on the power stroke to bleed off the combustion force?

What are you saying here?

Whew! Look out Pat Musi. Let's leave that one alone.

THis is funny. Did you just sign up under a different name to defend your
LS1 Tech buddies that are wrong?

You are not making any technical sense at all.

GMCTRuck,

I'll go away when you prove to me and everyone else that gapping your plugs
tighter for nitrous is a bad idea because the cylinder pressure is the same.

In fact, I'll make you all a deal...

If you , or anyone can prove that cylinder pressure doesn't increase before
spark with nitrous, or that gapping the plugs tighter has nothing to do with
increased cylinder pressure from nitrous injection, then I will leave.

Otherwise, all the bench racers can leave? Deal?

What does it take for people to admit they're wrong? I've backed up all my
posts and explained my reasons.

Wait...nobody likes a newb without an LS1.

For the gentleman that said I was being too harsh (Redline2K), I am sincerely sorry.

I get really worked up when it comes to cars and engine tech. Let it be known
that I didn't initiate the hostility...however I'm not any better for prolonging it.

 

Uhh ok, so instead of letting the weaker compression force (force of the piston compressing the fuel air mixture), you are going to ignite the fuel air mixture before TDC for what? First of all, doing that prevents the engine from making the most power (which is ignition at TDC). I have a feeling this is what you are referring to as "peak of the combustion event" (sounds like some net-gineered jargon with no reality whatsoever really). Regardless, once you ignite the fuel air mixture, the piston is no longer going up, it's going back down, and the exhaust valve is FAR from opening. So no way to bleed off cylinder pressure quickly and efficiently. If you intend to build a high compression motor like this, of course the damned thing won't run on pump gas. You'd be lucky to keep 11:1 comp and not knock like a son of a bitch with this mentality.

and 90* (which is the angle the piston is a TDC in a SBC, LS1) would be perpendicular force (what you are calling linear), and when you. Firing it off early might work for a 60* V6, but we use 90* V8s. You said it yourself, if timing is placed correctly, the kinetic energy of the explosion would occur at optimal "crank angle". So why is it so hard to fire off the cylinder at TDC with minimal dwell? In a properly tuned EFI setup this should be easy as ****, and you can MAKE MORE POWER with more compression.


I think the combination of both is better, but in a 350, .1 point in compression is worth ~3 CHP. Firing off a cylinder before it reaches top dead center is not effective, efficient, or the way to make power in a high compression engine running pump gas.


No, taking the easy way out is running less compression, and more advance because fine tuning a high compression motor to run on pump gas is either too much work, too difficult, or the physics of it is too difficult to comprehend. I don't contradict myself, and don't take lightly to such insults. I've seen you contradict yourself a few times with your responses to my post alone; not intentionally of course. Your ignorance regarding physics and engineering is blatant; you've gone so far as to make up your own jargon. Don't take it personally, it's a critical observation.

 

Idiot quote of the year:

Are you telling me your spark lead is 0 degrees?

YOu think that starting ignition at 0 degrees TDC makes the most power?

OH MY GOD!

The rest of your post just falls on it's face

 

Posted by 5-7
My friend, you need to go back to basics....like 1 + 1.

Seriously.

P.S. By any chance, is your name Terry Vance? Maybe a close relation?

 

you think that combustion in a gasoline engine yields 1200 PSI? you are an idiot. Which website did you get this off of? Try pressures closer to 120000 psi after ignition. if it was only 1200 psi, engine blocks of high tensile strength nylon could be used instead of thick, high tensile strength metal (block or sleeves).The chamber pressures inside a ******* gun barrel when a small about of powder goes off is 55000-60000 psi. I am beginning to see why you don't have a clue.
Heard of these things called camshafts? Yes, I'd want the exhaust valve open much sooner; the FORCE from combustion has already been acted on the piston. The explosion is what drove the piston down. It's called specific impulse. The pressure from the expanding CO2 has no where to go after the explosion, so where will it go? Well, it'll look for the easiest way out. If that means going out a headgaskets by blowing it, it'll go that way. If you bleed off the cylinder pressure fast, it'll prevent that excess CO2 from trying to blow out of the head gasket, etc. If the exhaust valve is opening as the piston reaches BDC it's far easier to bleed off that pressure off. The way to get that to work is having a camshaft ground to custom specifications. The only reason why spark advance is even present is to compensate for the fact that in upper RPMs, the piston is moving extremely fast and so in a sense it's "leading the shot" so that it fires off as close to TDC as possible at higher RPMs. Too much advance would be horribly destructive at high RPMs. Remember, times when dealing with engines are in MILLISECONDS. things are going on faster than you can blink at IDLE. At 1000 rpm, the engine is turning nearly 17 full rotations every second.

The only buddy I have here is Mustangeater. Don't be a smartass, you aren't educated enough for it to work out. Of course what I'm saying doesn't make any sense. It's all physics and engineering, with a little chemistry thrown into the mix. You are making up your own words like a kindergartener to try and explain a concept your mind can't quite grasp.

I didn't read enough of this bullshit in the thread to see why anyone would be arguing that cylinder pressure doesn't increase before TDC nitrous or otherwise, BUT as I said, it's negligible to the pressure AFTER ignition. That is the pressure that can cause engine damage if 1) parts aren't strong enough to handle it, 2) the pressure is kept in the cylinder too long (by too long we're talking microseconds), 3) occurs before it should (preignition, too much advance), because occuring before it should puts excess stress on #1 and makes #2 take longer.

Hows about you admit that you are wrong when confronted with the facts? If anything, demonstrations are solid forms of proof when regarding this issue. There are SEVERAL people running 11:1, 12:1 motors on pump gas. They are doing it without any problems and making huge power. The Engine Masters are running 13:1 compression on pump gas. This isn't a religious issue, subject to belief or interpretation. People are running high compression on pump gas, whether you "get it" or not.
whatever, you call everyone else bench racers inspite of the fact that they are telling you flat out that they HAVE high compression pump gas motors, and are running them problem free, yet somehow you are an engine guru with your low compression, relatively slow car. I bet it'd blow your mind to know there are people running 11:1 compression with forced induction on pump gas. Keep relying on your web-gineering, and "safety crutches" of lower compression and advancing timing to just before the point of backfiring. Let people who know what they are talking about and take the time to learn AND tune their high compression pump gas motors. You've clearly demonstrated you don't know that much. Don't bother to reply to me, I don't care to hear what new, nonsensical drivel you come up with in your incredible, insulting ignorance, and unfounded arrogance. It's quite obvious YOUR methodology towards building an engine isn't successful, otherwise you'd be going a LOT faster than you are. If you were running 11.7:1 compression, with a big set of heads, and a custom cam to move air in and out as efficiently as possible, and some engine management software to program a timing curve that fires the cylinder off when it's actually at TDC at any engine speed you could be oh, say in the 10s on the motor. But hey, keep that mind closed, and go on thinking you're right. When it all comes down to it, ETs are what prove who knows what they are doing.

 

um, you are a ******* idiot. Btw, I am not terry vance, no idea who the hell he is. 90 DEGREE V8. cylinders are aligned 90 degrees from each other. at TDC, it's a right angle. Do you need a ******* drawing, pea brain?

 

obviously you don't know what TDC is. TDC, most static compression, piston is the highest it can get. When you fire off a cylinder well before TDC, its not at its highest. That means less leverage, less compression. There are plenty of engines running 0* from the factory you ******* tard. Most of them are high compression engines. How about you bring your low compression pile of **** out, and I drag it up and down the street dipshit?

 

[Adrenaline_Z]Idiot of the year. Has 13 second garbage, rigged together by a ******* monkey, doesn't get physics or engineering.

File photo attached this is what happened the last time this monkey brained dipshit tried to comprehend basic science. Hate to stoop to this level, but idiocy of the magnitude this ******** exudes needs to be insulted.