This is a Jeff Creech motor ! 
HELP - Builder forgot to put the knock seals in the valley cover !
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From: Fuquay Varina , NC
HELP - Builder forgot to put the knock sensor seals in the valley cover ! Ok , so I got a P0327 code for the front knock sensor , so I pull the intake and check the knock sensor , its covered in oil . So I pull the wiring harness off the sensor and it spins off in my hand ! 
I look down the hole and low and behold there isnt a seal between the block and the cover , just a gap where they should have been . I called the builder and he says dont worry about it , just tighten the knock sensor and go .If that was really true , then why would GM put a seal there ?
My ultimate questions for this thread is , can I run without those seals , or would it be in my best interests to remove the valley cover and get those seals in place ? Will the oil on the sensors cause them to fail ?
Any help will be most appreciated !
Thanks,
Joe
I look down the hole and low and behold there isnt a seal between the block and the cover , just a gap where they should have been . I called the builder and he says dont worry about it , just tighten the knock sensor and go .If that was really true , then why would GM put a seal there ? My ultimate questions for this thread is , can I run without those seals , or would it be in my best interests to remove the valley cover and get those seals in place ? Will the oil on the sensors cause them to fail ?
Any help will be most appreciated !
Thanks,
Joe
Last edited by 1999T/A; May 9, 2005 at 12:02 PM.
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From: Fuquay Varina , NC
Cmon , someone has gotta have at least an opinion on this . Personally , I am **** as hell about attention to detail concerning a motor build/repair , so my car is down until I can get the seals . Sucks to be me . What would some of you guys do ?
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Jeff IS the man. Well I mean, I've never heard anything about his MOTORS, but when it comes to tuning, he is THE man for dyno-tuning. That's weird that he would tell you something wrong.
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From: Fuquay Varina , NC
Originally Posted by TroubledWine3
Jeff IS the man. Well I mean, I've never heard anything about his MOTORS, but when it comes to tuning, he is THE man for dyno-tuning. That's weird that he would tell you something wrong.
Weird as it may be , thats exactly what he said (That there was nothing wrong not running those seals ) . Would the internal vacuum leak affect performance ?
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From: Fuquay Varina , NC
Originally Posted by 1999T/A
Weird as it may be , thats exactly what he said (That there was nothing wrong not running those seals ) . Would the internal vacuum leak affect performance ?
TTT !
Originally Posted by 1999T/A
Weird as it may be , thats exactly what he said (That there was nothing wrong not running those seals ) . Would the internal vacuum leak affect performance ?
somewhat.
the unmetered vac leak would be small and still within the fuel trims ability to fix, so its very minor... the diff probly wouldnt even show in your timeslip or on a dyno.
but you are sucking air in thru there, into your engine...... with no filter or anything.
id put the seals in. just because something "will work" doesnt mean its right.
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From: Fuquay Varina , NC
Originally Posted by MrDude_1
somewhat.
id put the seals in. just because something "will work" doesnt mean its right.
id put the seals in. just because something "will work" doesnt mean its right.
I totally agree. The car is down until I get the seals in from the dealer .Still , I think that for 3300 bucks for a rebuild , stuff like this shouldn't be happening . I would have triple checked everything before it went to the customer . I know hes busy as hell though. Maybe I expect too much for my money .
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From: Fuquay Varina , NC
Check out this pic .The black grommets are what I am missing . That leaves a pretty big hole for vacuum to leak out . Looks to me like it would be one hell of a vacuum leak . Thoughts ?
You need those seals. Right now your motor is venting through the gaps. I would be concerned with dirt, moisture getting into the oil. Your not taking in any unmetered air, the valley doesn't connect to your air intake. I woudl just buy an ls6 valley cover and be done with it.
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From: Hillsborough, NC
Hey man, I didn't say it was right, I just said it wasn't a disaster. I couldn't hear (I was in the car on the way back from Memphis on a Sunday and was answering customer calls, how many people do that?) what all you were saying, and with the yelling I was having to do, was that park it, get seals and install if you're worried about it. I didn't charge you for seals, yours were shot, and that's not one of the things that get checked 3 times on my motors, I was trying to get the bottom end buttoned up and then had to order the seals, and you were coming in to get the motor then you couldn't get there until the next week, it slipped through the cracks with all that, and I'm very sorry, I'll make it up to you.
It SEEMED like you wanted to just put it all back together Sunday, and that's fine, it's been fine for like 1000-2000 miles now. Buy some seals and bring me the car, I'll put them on for you.
Give me a call, I'm just back from memphis so I'm backed up trying to catch up from being out for a week. I probably won't have time to check back here.
-jeff "maybe I should have a 30 day or free sale and then close the doors like some vendors do...."
It SEEMED like you wanted to just put it all back together Sunday, and that's fine, it's been fine for like 1000-2000 miles now. Buy some seals and bring me the car, I'll put them on for you.
Give me a call, I'm just back from memphis so I'm backed up trying to catch up from being out for a week. I probably won't have time to check back here.
-jeff "maybe I should have a 30 day or free sale and then close the doors like some vendors do...."
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From: Hillsborough, NC
Originally Posted by AllThrottle4U
You need those seals. Right now your motor is venting through the gaps. I would be concerned with dirt, moisture getting into the oil. Your not taking in any unmetered air, the valley doesn't connect to your air intake. I woudl just buy an ls6 valley cover and be done with it.
If anything, this is the new ghetto PCV fix! (sorry just trying to have some humor here.)
Joe, please call me now that I'm not in the car at 90 mph banzi'ing through Tennessee..
-jeff
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From: Fuquay Varina , NC
Originally Posted by Milkman383
Agreed, you need those seals, they are not a disaster not to have however, and there is no unmetered air leak at all. Yes, biggest worry is oil getting up top and making a mess and dirt getting down and bad bad things happening, the top seal on the knock sensor harness should stop that.
If anything, this is the new ghetto PCV fix! (sorry just trying to have some humor here.)
Joe, please call me now that I'm not in the car at 90 mph banzi'ing through Tennessee..
-jeff
If anything, this is the new ghetto PCV fix! (sorry just trying to have some humor here.)
Joe, please call me now that I'm not in the car at 90 mph banzi'ing through Tennessee..
-jeff
Originally Posted by AllThrottle4U
You need those seals. Right now your motor is venting through the gaps. I would be concerned with dirt, moisture getting into the oil. Your not taking in any unmetered air, the valley doesn't connect to your air intake. I woudl just buy an ls6 valley cover and be done with it.
Exatly...water and debris would eventually make their way down into the engine. Get the seals, and yell at the "expert". lol.
Edit: Saw that he's trying to help you out.
Last edited by Grimes; May 9, 2005 at 01:02 PM.
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From: Fuquay Varina , NC
Jeff dont think i am all pissed about this . I know you didnt charge me for the seals , so its cool . I had people telling me to get another builder and **** , and that scared the hell outta me . I have a hard time trusting people in the first place and you came highly recommended so it kinda frustrated me . Hell this whole car is one big frustration since I got it . I would still bring my motor to you if I needed another rebuild .
The GM dealership I went to today had them in stock so the car will be back on the road today .
The GM dealership I went to today had them in stock so the car will be back on the road today .