gouge/wear in cam i just swapped out - what could cause this? can i still drive?
05-22-2005, 03:32 PM
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gouge/wear in cam i just swapped out - what could cause this? can i still drive? i just pulled my stock cam/valvesprings out and put in a used tr224 and new 918 springs.
well, after we pulled the cam out, i didnt look at it till after today (after the car is back together, and i've already started it up), so as i was cleaning up, i looked at the old cam, and the 2nd last cylinder has some crazy stuff going on there.
now the wear pattern coming up to it is ok, and it looks like its been wearing down, i hope the lifters are ok, i'm guessing that they are since the rest of that lobe is smooth and normal like the others. but the top of that one particular lobe is bitched for sure. They also said it could have been manufactured from gm with a metallurgical problem that ended up installed anyways? i hope thats all it is
I just showed it to someone nearby and they said i'm a dumbass for not changing my lifters when the intake was off, but i went with what most people do on this site, anyways, what do you guys think of this cam lobe? what could have caused this? am i safe to drive the car with the lifters that are in there now?
and i thought things were going smoothly for the last 18 hours of the cam swap.......
well, after we pulled the cam out, i didnt look at it till after today (after the car is back together, and i've already started it up), so as i was cleaning up, i looked at the old cam, and the 2nd last cylinder has some crazy stuff going on there.
now the wear pattern coming up to it is ok, and it looks like its been wearing down, i hope the lifters are ok, i'm guessing that they are since the rest of that lobe is smooth and normal like the others. but the top of that one particular lobe is bitched for sure. They also said it could have been manufactured from gm with a metallurgical problem that ended up installed anyways? i hope thats all it is
I just showed it to someone nearby and they said i'm a dumbass for not changing my lifters when the intake was off, but i went with what most people do on this site, anyways, what do you guys think of this cam lobe? what could have caused this? am i safe to drive the car with the lifters that are in there now?
and i thought things were going smoothly for the last 18 hours of the cam swap.......
05-22-2005, 03:56 PM
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I would almost bet that that one lifter looks just like the lobe on the cam. I would rather be safe then sorry, so I would remove the heads and replace all the lifters. But that is just my opinion.
05-22-2005, 04:09 PM
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the rest of that lobe is fine though, so i think that lifter may be ok?
anyone else have any experience/opinions about this?
i only want to go in there again if i REALLY REALLY REALLY have to, i'm sick of working on the car at this point (and dont want to spend anymore money either), and if i change lifters, i may as well dump 2grand on heads..... ahhhhh i hate how this works.
now, the rest of the lobe is fine, and the bad part looks like the lifter was probably wearing/smoothing it out with time, so i'm hoping that the lifter is still ok.
deep down i know i need to go back in there, but i'm trying to find a way around it!
thanks for the help man
anyone else have any experience/opinions about this?
i only want to go in there again if i REALLY REALLY REALLY have to, i'm sick of working on the car at this point (and dont want to spend anymore money either), and if i change lifters, i may as well dump 2grand on heads..... ahhhhh i hate how this works.
now, the rest of the lobe is fine, and the bad part looks like the lifter was probably wearing/smoothing it out with time, so i'm hoping that the lifter is still ok.
deep down i know i need to go back in there, but i'm trying to find a way around it!
thanks for the help man
05-22-2005, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by cyphur_traq
actually, if you change the lifters you might as well just change the lifters 
that kind of thinking(yours) makes a man broke quickly!
that kind of thinking(yours) makes a man broke quickly!
no kidding, at this point i dont want to even change the lifters, i was hoping that someone would chime in saying they've been there with the same problem and that everything is ok,
well, i guess i gotta change the lifters.....
can anyone comfirm what is going on with this cam? is it indeed a manufacturing problem? the cam has 80,000 miles on it, and ran great, the car really never gave me issues.
I understand that since i already got 80kmiles out of a lifter that probably rolled over that cam lobe the whole time (hopefully someone can confirm this is a manufacture defect) that i should see if i can get another 80kmiles out of them, but it might be fine, thats my whole dilemma. i wont have time soon to change the lifters, and i NEED to drive this car, so can it wait 8 weeks till summer school is out?
sorry for the long posts
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05-22-2005, 06:02 PM
#8
2 pieces of metal come in contact and one is damaged; both get changed. You need a new cam and new lifters. I think the cam was defective during the manufacturing phase. The pitted look on the lobe looks chemical.
Sorry you are going through this but it happens. Beer helps.
Sorry you are going through this but it happens. Beer helps.
05-22-2005, 06:45 PM
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Its a camshaft issue. When I worked for GM, these problems cropped up in 3100s, 3800s and 350s as well. You SHOULD have replaced the lifters, but I will tell you from running into this before, the some lifters appeared to be undamaged. Of course, you don't know because you didn't see them, but there is a chance you "might" be OK.
05-22-2005, 06:45 PM
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i really wish i had a look at the cam before i put everythign back together, i'd of pulled the heads, but its definitely too late now,
i'm gonna change the lifters within 2 months it looks like, and buy heads if the deal is right. i'll check out the the new cam that is in there now when i do the lifters, i think i'll be able to see enough when i remove the lifter tray and just rotate the motor before i pull it apart and have to put a cam in, and if i do have ot change it, then i'll possibly go with an even bigger cam? (depends on how i feel about this one by then). but i really think this cam (new one installed) now is gonna be fine, looking at the bad lobe, everything else is perfectly identical to the others besides the tip of the lobe.
thanks for your help guys
and any other input would be appreciated (like what lifters to get!)
i'm gonna change the lifters within 2 months it looks like, and buy heads if the deal is right. i'll check out the the new cam that is in there now when i do the lifters, i think i'll be able to see enough when i remove the lifter tray and just rotate the motor before i pull it apart and have to put a cam in, and if i do have ot change it, then i'll possibly go with an even bigger cam? (depends on how i feel about this one by then). but i really think this cam (new one installed) now is gonna be fine, looking at the bad lobe, everything else is perfectly identical to the others besides the tip of the lobe.
thanks for your help guys
and any other input would be appreciated (like what lifters to get!)
05-23-2005, 06:10 PM
#12
The cam bearing associated w/ that journal surface next to the damaged lobe is probably in need of replacement also...the grooves on the cam surface look pretty serious.
05-23-2005, 08:37 PM
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I happen to think that all is well. Aside from the obviously spoiled spot, the wear pattern looks normal too me. A normal wear pattern displays the tracks at the edge of the lobe just like those running past the bad spot. I always wondered whether the edges or the center carried the greatest load. I think your pictures answer that question. I agree with the speculation that there was a manufacturing defect but it was luckily confined to the center of the lobe where it shouldn't be a cause of further damage. If the lifter was deteriorating, the damage would be different and far worse. Interesting weird pictures, thanks for sharing.
Last edited by Gary Z; 05-23-2005 at 08:49 PM.
05-23-2005, 09:17 PM
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Dude, drive it till it blows.
I say f*ck it, if it made it 80K without completely destroying the lobe, It must be fine.
With 80K miles on it, I say save for a whole engine or a whole rebuild. Do that around 100K, which I have no doubt your current lifters will be just fine until then...
I say f*ck it, if it made it 80K without completely destroying the lobe, It must be fine.
With 80K miles on it, I say save for a whole engine or a whole rebuild. Do that around 100K, which I have no doubt your current lifters will be just fine until then...
05-23-2005, 10:39 PM
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thanks for all the input guys, its been a big help, now i just have a decision to make!
honestly, i think i'll change the lifters, the cost isnt that high, it will give me some piece of mind, and i'll hopefully have a good enough look at the cam in there for wear (hoping to see it without taking the cam out, i'll probably have to take the valley cover off). now for the cam bearing directly left of the bad lobe (on the first three pics it has a set of "lines" on it), those lines, are totally smooth to the touch, i dont know how normal they are, but I think they look worse in these pics than they really are.
personally, i have some confidence in me that its driveable, and that driving it hard wont be a problem either
also, sorry for the kinda crappy pics, i used my camcorder to take them, I can probably get a high res image if anyone wants to see it, just mention it and i'll find a camera to use.
again, thanks for all the input, and just to add a side note, i LOVE the sound of this cam, its perfect for me
honestly, i think i'll change the lifters, the cost isnt that high, it will give me some piece of mind, and i'll hopefully have a good enough look at the cam in there for wear (hoping to see it without taking the cam out, i'll probably have to take the valley cover off). now for the cam bearing directly left of the bad lobe (on the first three pics it has a set of "lines" on it), those lines, are totally smooth to the touch, i dont know how normal they are, but I think they look worse in these pics than they really are.
personally, i have some confidence in me that its driveable, and that driving it hard wont be a problem either
also, sorry for the kinda crappy pics, i used my camcorder to take them, I can probably get a high res image if anyone wants to see it, just mention it and i'll find a camera to use.
again, thanks for all the input, and just to add a side note, i LOVE the sound of this cam, its perfect for me
05-23-2005, 10:44 PM
#17
Originally Posted by bigshoe
i just pulled my stock cam/valvesprings out and put in a used tr224 and new 918 springs.
well, after we pulled the cam out, i didnt look at it till after today (after the car is back together, and i've already started it up), so as i was cleaning up, i looked at the old cam, and the 2nd last cylinder has some crazy stuff going on there.
now the wear pattern coming up to it is ok, and it looks like its been wearing down, i hope the lifters are ok, i'm guessing that they are since the rest of that lobe is smooth and normal like the others. but the top of that one particular lobe is bitched for sure. They also said it could have been manufactured from gm with a metallurgical problem that ended up installed anyways? i hope thats all it is
I just showed it to someone nearby and they said i'm a dumbass for not changing my lifters when the intake was off, but i went with what most people do on this site, anyways, what do you guys think of this cam lobe? what could have caused this? am i safe to drive the car with the lifters that are in there now?
well, after we pulled the cam out, i didnt look at it till after today (after the car is back together, and i've already started it up), so as i was cleaning up, i looked at the old cam, and the 2nd last cylinder has some crazy stuff going on there.
now the wear pattern coming up to it is ok, and it looks like its been wearing down, i hope the lifters are ok, i'm guessing that they are since the rest of that lobe is smooth and normal like the others. but the top of that one particular lobe is bitched for sure. They also said it could have been manufactured from gm with a metallurgical problem that ended up installed anyways? i hope thats all it is
I just showed it to someone nearby and they said i'm a dumbass for not changing my lifters when the intake was off, but i went with what most people do on this site, anyways, what do you guys think of this cam lobe? what could have caused this? am i safe to drive the car with the lifters that are in there now?
gotta pull the head...
05-24-2005, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by bigshoe
thanks for all the input guys, its been a big help, now i just have a decision to make!
honestly, i think i'll change the lifters, the cost isnt that high, it will give me some piece of mind, and i'll hopefully have a good enough look at the cam in there for wear (hoping to see it without taking the cam out, i'll probably have to take the valley cover off). now for the cam bearing directly left of the bad lobe (on the first three pics it has a set of "lines" on it), those lines, are totally smooth to the touch, i dont know how normal they are, but I think they look worse in these pics than they really are.
personally, i have some confidence in me that its driveable, and that driving it hard wont be a problem either
also, sorry for the kinda crappy pics, i used my camcorder to take them, I can probably get a high res image if anyone wants to see it, just mention it and i'll find a camera to use.
again, thanks for all the input, and just to add a side note, i LOVE the sound of this cam, its perfect for me
honestly, i think i'll change the lifters, the cost isnt that high, it will give me some piece of mind, and i'll hopefully have a good enough look at the cam in there for wear (hoping to see it without taking the cam out, i'll probably have to take the valley cover off). now for the cam bearing directly left of the bad lobe (on the first three pics it has a set of "lines" on it), those lines, are totally smooth to the touch, i dont know how normal they are, but I think they look worse in these pics than they really are.
personally, i have some confidence in me that its driveable, and that driving it hard wont be a problem either
also, sorry for the kinda crappy pics, i used my camcorder to take them, I can probably get a high res image if anyone wants to see it, just mention it and i'll find a camera to use.
again, thanks for all the input, and just to add a side note, i LOVE the sound of this cam, its perfect for me
don't waste your time changing the lifters now. do it when you change the cam again. oh, i agree with crainholio, your cam bearing is toast. how about the other journals?
05-24-2005, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by OWENMUSTANG
looks like you are driving it now?
don't waste your time changing the lifters now. do it when you change the cam again. oh, i agree with crainholio, your cam bearing is toast. how about the other journals?
don't waste your time changing the lifters now. do it when you change the cam again. oh, i agree with crainholio, your cam bearing is toast. how about the other journals?
so you guys really think my cam bearings are bad just from those lines? how much of a bitch is it to change cam bearings? thats something i really didnt consider, to me it didnt looke like it had any real wear? I'll try to get good pics of the journals up, might take a day or two though
05-24-2005, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by bigshoe
yes ii'm driving it now, have 180 miles on it since the swap.
so you guys really think my cam bearings are bad just from those lines? how much of a bitch is it to change cam bearings? thats something i really didnt consider, to me it didnt looke like it had any real wear? I'll try to get good pics of the journals up, might take a day or two though
so you guys really think my cam bearings are bad just from those lines? how much of a bitch is it to change cam bearings? thats something i really didnt consider, to me it didnt looke like it had any real wear? I'll try to get good pics of the journals up, might take a day or two though
worn cam bearings = rebuild.