PREDATOR-Z

777,
Open your mind man.
I make more power than you with a cam only 224/220, .581/.581 116+0 XE-R (404rwhp/383rwtq)
Vs 386rwhp 365rwtq with a 231/237 .598"/.595" 112+2

So how do you explain that?
Oh and i'm A4 BTW

GuitsBoy

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, but you have fresher gas over there!!!

PREDATOR-Z

Got that right 98 octane too and i hate to do this $1.35/ gallon.

ty_ty13

iTrader: (42)

1.35 per gallon... you *****

everyone has a good point and i believe every cam has its role to play in a certain situation and combonation

but if there was a "best" cam then they wouldnt make 5million different ones(it would make our choice easier though).

but everyone has different plans... so lets all hold hands and get along

PREDATOR-Z

That is prolly the only thing I don't miss about home

777

iTrader: (21)

The ramp rates on my cam suck. They are not aggressive at all. A cam is not necassarily defined by the numbers at .050. I'm not running a UD pulley or ported throttle body. My car has 102,000 miles on it. There are a lot of variables besides the cam. I do however get your point. BTW I thought you had heads.

I just think it is wrong that this guy is trying to justify his claims by putting baby cams with either z06 heads or AFR's, when we are talking about a cam only deal. It is skewing the info. He also gives the typical I have been working on engines for over 20 years (why is it always 20) thing, and I have a hard time believing it. For some reason that always bothers me.

PREDATOR-Z

Just keep in mind there is a possibility that you would take me in the 1/4 as we both know numbers aren't everything.

No, no heads, stock 241's with LS6 valves, 918's, tit ret. portmatched (int/Exh) but not ported and Cometics .045. Not even what I would call Stage 1 (.5 maybe) I did the work myself.

I see what you mean, and my point is always not to think "bigger is better" but to match all the componants to work in perfect harmony.

Now that my car is going track only, I will have to match a "Bigger" combo, simply because i want mid 10's NA. But that will require heads for sure, a not so big but very torquey cam, 12:1+ SCR, ~4400 stall and a 12 bolt.

I should have it up and running within 3 months.

777

iTrader: (21)

I have the same deal with my heads. The intake runners are just cleaned up. I have stock valves though. PRC dual spring kit. Stock head gaskets though.

Kraest

iTrader: (3)

Correction:
If I keep reading your replies, I feel more and more stupid as I read. For someone who is a self-proclaimed advanced engine-builder, you actually STARTED a thread asking about hydraulic roller lifters? Give me a ******* break. You really think I give a **** about AFTERMARKET HEADS/CAM cars dynoing under 475 rwhp?

Hello? We're talking about CAM-ONLY cars using STOCK UNPORTED LS1 HEADS making GREAT numbers. I guess Futral, LG Motorsports, and Thunder Racing have it all wrong. They should take your advice and contract you out as a project engineer.

Stick to building "20-years of experience" 1970s 23* headed, "3/4 race high-lift" flat-tappet-cammed, single-plane intake manifolded, Holley 750 Double Pumpered SBCs bored .125 over that make 300 horsepower @ 5500 rpm.

777 already made you look like an ***, but I had to add my $.50 worth.

Mike

777

iTrader: (21)

Do you mean let?

GuitsBoy

iTrader: (4)

Im all for having all your mods work in unison to create something thats greater than the sum of all its parts....


... But claiming that a baby cam (220/224 or otherwise) is going to make a quicker, faster, more powerful car than an f13, f14 ir f15 in an otherwise identically modded car with stock heads?!?

1LE LS1

iTrader: (1)

got to see an SS last night with a few bolt ons and a 224/224 on a 114 Cam
in an A4. had a little lope to it

he said he had idle problems like it would go dead but i am guessin that is just in tuning

im leanin toward about a 228/228 on a 112 or so
but the F13 is soundin pretty good
if i can get it to run in my A4

i just want a god bit more lope than the 224/224 on a 114 had
so i think maybe goin with a 228 on a 112 would probably be about rite

what do yall think about that???

777

iTrader: (21)

The tr224 on a 112 lopes pretty good. The f-13 won't lope all that much, so that's not the cam for you if you are wanting it more for sound. You could run the F-14, but if you don't have a good tuner that might be a little much for an a4.

1LE LS1

iTrader: (1)

where can i go check out this tr224
to get some more info???

PREDATOR-Z

Take a FM13 400rwhp and a 224/224 400rwhp cam only (this is just an exemple), {same weight, side by side, and humor me (same driver)}.

The 224/224 will have more trq down low and do a better 60', who do you think will reach the end first? 1/8th and 1/4

I hold my BS meter in the red zone and maintain that "the size of the cam alone doesn't win races, it is the total COMBO that matters"

GuitsBoy

iTrader: (4)

Ill agree with you here completely. The added low end torque and power under the curve of the 224 will undoubtedly win the race.

Where I think the discrepency lies is that the 224 cam car will require more mods to get to that 400 RWHP than the f-13 car will. For instance, maybe the 224 car will have !cats, a ported TB and a pulley, or it could simply be a factory freak... whereas the f-13 car can have a disadvantage of the aformentioned mods and still reach 400 RWHP. Or if youd rather, give the f-13 car the same extra mods the 224 car had and it should now dyno higher than the 224 car and should take the win.

If you have two identically dynoing cars before the cam swap, same year, same mods, the f-13 car should make much more top end HP, which should be more than enough to overcome any torque disadvantage.

Now this is only for a race application of course where the car stays relatively close to redline the entire quarter mile. The low end grunt of the 224 makes a short appearance in the 60ft and then isnt seen again the rest of the race. The higher top end HP of the f13 will make up the difference the rest of the way. If you want to talk about which car is going to be more fun passing people on the highway during your daily commute... that title might go to the 224 due to the torque.

I really think were just talking about two entirely different scenarios here. Youre speaking of cars that dyno identically regardless of any difference in mods it may take to get there. Im thinking of identically modded cars, where as the f-13 should dyno considerably higher.

Anyway, predator, no hate man... youve got a valid point, i was just thinking along differnt lines.

Schantin

iTrader: (6)

Excellent description I've been watching this thread as I'm cam shopping myself. For me, street manners are more important thatn all out HP (as I rarely go to the track) Sounds like the TR224 might be the ticket. (I was looking at both the F-13 and TR224 before.)

Schantin
2002 Camaro Z28 M6

777

iTrader: (21)

show me any tr224 cam only dyno that looks anything like this one
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...224+f-13+graph

Even the tr224 with heads probably wouldn't get this much power. Look at that graph. Tell me there isn't any low-end in the F-13 cam.

Over 350rwtq from 3000-6000 granted that pull was with the belt off, that only gave him about 10 extra hp. so the real graph should be too far off.

Silvervette73

I Went with MTI stealthII. that might be what you are looking for.

Kraest

iTrader: (3)

Don't sweat it. Everyone wants to believe their own ****.



Mike