cam experts step inside-->
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From: miami, florida
cam experts step inside--> well, after deciding for nearly three months as far as what my first mod should be in my z06 i chose to go for a cam swap. however, new cams are in and out and there are tons and tons of them.
i had a cam in my 99 ss (224 224 .563 .563 from thunder racing) and i loved it. i pulled really nice, but it loped alot and it wasnt in my opinion too bad for what it was, but i would like a cam that lopes less, but pulls just as hard.
i have been looking at different cams, but i cant make up my mind as far as what cam to go with. i would like a cam with pull all the way to nearly 7k and that doesnt idle too " crazy", but that u can still tell there is a cam in there.
Is there a cam that can put me close to 400 rwhp with stock manifolds?? i am currently at just a a little over 360rwhp..(362rwhp to be exact). i am also going to add a varam intake, but everything else will remain the same.
let me hear some suggestions....
i had a cam in my 99 ss (224 224 .563 .563 from thunder racing) and i loved it. i pulled really nice, but it loped alot and it wasnt in my opinion too bad for what it was, but i would like a cam that lopes less, but pulls just as hard.
i have been looking at different cams, but i cant make up my mind as far as what cam to go with. i would like a cam with pull all the way to nearly 7k and that doesnt idle too " crazy", but that u can still tell there is a cam in there.
Is there a cam that can put me close to 400 rwhp with stock manifolds?? i am currently at just a a little over 360rwhp..(362rwhp to be exact). i am also going to add a varam intake, but everything else will remain the same.
let me hear some suggestions....
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Joined: Mar 2004
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From: BFE
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/331726-thunder-racing-cheatr-cam-only-results.html
This CheaTR cam will do it with a set of heads.
You might be close with a Z06.
Also there is the MTI StealthII 224/220, .581/.581 116
IMO you first mod should be a nice set of stainless LTs like LG's. You'll gain more with them than a cam.
This CheaTR cam will do it with a set of heads.
You might be close with a Z06.
Also there is the MTI StealthII 224/220, .581/.581 116
IMO you first mod should be a nice set of stainless LTs like LG's. You'll gain more with them than a cam.
I have an F13 on a 114+4, it does not idle crazy but you can definitely tell there is a cam in the car. I shift at 6700 (due to the fact taht I dont want to spin the stock bottom end any higher), but the cam is definitely still pulling. Only thing is, I dont know if you'll hit 400rwhp with it and stock manifolds (although you do have ls6 heads, so you might, im not really sure).
PREDATOR-Z gave you some good suggestions also, and I agree, you NEED some headers. Were you planning on staying with stock manifolds?
PREDATOR-Z gave you some good suggestions also, and I agree, you NEED some headers. Were you planning on staying with stock manifolds?
Originally Posted by whitecamaross
most likely i will stay with stock manifolds. i dont want to do major mods to the z. if i change anything exhaust wise then it will be an off rd x pipe.
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get the LG headers, you'll gain 20rwhp easy from them. get the intake and such, and you'll be quite close to 400 as it stands.
if you aren't going to get LGs headers, at least port out your stockers. putting in a cam w/an otherwise stock car is not going to give you the results you want.
edit: Turo, you're talking about Patrick G. he also had the more restrictive F-body headers, and this guy does have LS6 heads and freer flowing exhaust.
if you aren't going to get LGs headers, at least port out your stockers. putting in a cam w/an otherwise stock car is not going to give you the results you want.
edit: Turo, you're talking about Patrick G. he also had the more restrictive F-body headers, and this guy does have LS6 heads and freer flowing exhaust.
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TECH Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: BFE
Yeap like i said. CheaTR cam seems to be good for at least 30rwhp and headers would put him over to 400 top.
But if he does a search, there is a Z06 with Stealth II, headers but cam only making 402 at the wheels.
But if he does a search, there is a Z06 with Stealth II, headers but cam only making 402 at the wheels.
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: miami, florida
to me it doesnt make any sense to put lg headers (1200 dollars) plus 500 dollars for a good tune and only gain 15-17rwhp which is what most people gain on a z06. i have read alot of threads on z06vette.com and swapping headers on a z06 while leaving your motor bone stock is almost a waste of money because the gains are minimal. however, once you upgrade internals then yes it is worth it, but otherwise most people say that stock z06 manifolds flow extremely extremely good.
lg headers are over priced if you ask me, but to each their own.
lg headers are over priced if you ask me, but to each their own.
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From: BFE
That is 20rwhp with stock cam, add 20>30 hp for the cam and you're looking at 50>70rwhp increase with tune.
LGs are the best, you can get Kooks for around $850.
Also a cam change is around $900 or so on average and that for ~20rwhp!!
LGs are the best, you can get Kooks for around $850.
Also a cam change is around $900 or so on average and that for ~20rwhp!!
I'm curious if your 224/224 was on a 112 LSA....
Use something similar on a 114 LSA and it will be noticably smoother and make similar peak HP and TQ (slightly less down low).
DON"T use a reverse pattern with a restricted exhaust (ie. exh. manifolds). It will be down on power, especially upstairs.
I have ran a 224/228 on a 114 LSA and I found it to be quite stealthy. Just a slight amount of "lope" at 850 RPM's and perfect "stock like" driving manners while still being capable of pulling hard to 7K with the right induction and cylinder head mods.
GREAT choice for a dual purpose street cam.
(A 224/224 will idle slightly smoother and give up about 5-6 HP to the 224/228 at higher RPM's)
Tony M.
EDIT: Also, use an XER lobe (or similar)....they have less advertised duration which has a big impact on idle quality and more area under the curve (which has a big impact on power!) I bet the 224/228 cam in my car would idle smoother (than your previous 224/224) AND make more power due to the LSA and the different ramp designs. You will also get more lift with the faster ramps which is another benefit that helps power output.....Good Luck
Use something similar on a 114 LSA and it will be noticably smoother and make similar peak HP and TQ (slightly less down low).
DON"T use a reverse pattern with a restricted exhaust (ie. exh. manifolds). It will be down on power, especially upstairs.
I have ran a 224/228 on a 114 LSA and I found it to be quite stealthy. Just a slight amount of "lope" at 850 RPM's and perfect "stock like" driving manners while still being capable of pulling hard to 7K with the right induction and cylinder head mods.
GREAT choice for a dual purpose street cam.
(A 224/224 will idle slightly smoother and give up about 5-6 HP to the 224/228 at higher RPM's)
Tony M.
EDIT: Also, use an XER lobe (or similar)....they have less advertised duration which has a big impact on idle quality and more area under the curve (which has a big impact on power!) I bet the 224/228 cam in my car would idle smoother (than your previous 224/224) AND make more power due to the LSA and the different ramp designs. You will also get more lift with the faster ramps which is another benefit that helps power output.....Good Luck
Last edited by Tony Mamo @ AFR; Jun 5, 2005 at 01:29 PM.
If you stick with stock exhaust manifolds, you're going to need to do 2 things. You're going to need to open up the exhaust valve a little earlier than if you had headers (to allow enough time to evacuate the cylinder) and you'll want to keep the overlap less than 0 degrees at .050" to keep the exhaust from contaminating your intake charge.
These were the principles that led to the development of the Thunder Racing CheaTR camshaft. Overlap is around -11 degrees at .050" (for very smooth idle) and the greater exhaust duration and early opening give the exhaust enough time to leave the cylinder. On a Z06, since the exhaust is better than the F-bodies, you could probably get by with a little later exhaust opening and a little less exhaust duration. If you want a smooth idle, I'd recommend keeping the overlap between -10 and -5 degrees. Here's what I would recommend for a Z06 running stock manifolds.
220/228 .595/.598 (XE-R) 115LSA, 114ICL. You get an intake closing point of 44 degrees ABDC for peak power at 6300 (and it will pull to 7000), exhaust opening point of 50 degrees and overlap of -6 degrees at .050".
These were the principles that led to the development of the Thunder Racing CheaTR camshaft. Overlap is around -11 degrees at .050" (for very smooth idle) and the greater exhaust duration and early opening give the exhaust enough time to leave the cylinder. On a Z06, since the exhaust is better than the F-bodies, you could probably get by with a little later exhaust opening and a little less exhaust duration. If you want a smooth idle, I'd recommend keeping the overlap between -10 and -5 degrees. Here's what I would recommend for a Z06 running stock manifolds.
220/228 .595/.598 (XE-R) 115LSA, 114ICL. You get an intake closing point of 44 degrees ABDC for peak power at 6300 (and it will pull to 7000), exhaust opening point of 50 degrees and overlap of -6 degrees at .050".
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2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: miami, florida
lg motorsports dont give you 20rwhp. i know of 2 z06 vettes that did the swap and got nothing from it. if i sprayed the car then i think it is a must to do a header swap, or even with a nice head/cam set up, but to go from $800 headers to $1200 headers for just 3-4 hp more is insane if you ask me. yes, i am very positive that if i was going all out with a 408ci or heavy mods then yes i think lg would be truely worth it, but for something mild like a cam or the like i think that it is a waste of $ when u can be using those $300-400 dollars to do an intake or asp pulley or anything else like that.
i have been thinking about that cheater cam, but are there any other options? also, i was truely considering the new 232/238 tsp.
i have been thinking about that cheater cam, but are there any other options? also, i was truely considering the new 232/238 tsp.
Originally Posted by whitecamaross
i have been thinking about that cheater cam, but are there any other options? also, i was truely considering the new 232/238 tsp.
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Joined: Mar 2004
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From: BFE
i know of 2 z06 vettes that did the swap and got nothing from it.
I've seen 400rwhp Z06's with just bolt ons and a good tune.
Vararam, ported TB, headers, magnaflow X with stock muffs.
On The Tree
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From: St. Clair
My Z06 did 348 rwhp stock and 366 with LT headers being the only change...By the way, that 366 rwhp was on a Mustang Dyno, and they read about 5% lower than a Dyno Jet Dyno...
That would put the rwhp at roughly 385 with headers...It does not take much of a cam to put a Z06 over 400 rwhp whether it has headers or not...
Oh, and I did install Hi-Flow Cats to keep the exhaust somewhat environmentally correct...Maybe would have gained another 5 rwhp with out them...
Anyways...My suggestion to you, would be to go with a rear gear swap as your first mod...That way you will still have the stealthy sound and smooth idle that you are looking for...The stock Z06 cam will pull willingly well past the 6600 rpm rev limiter...
I wish I would have done the gears first...Now, the gears will be later this summer instead...
I read alot of the guys really liking the 3.90's in the Z06...
Peace...Gman
That would put the rwhp at roughly 385 with headers...It does not take much of a cam to put a Z06 over 400 rwhp whether it has headers or not...
Oh, and I did install Hi-Flow Cats to keep the exhaust somewhat environmentally correct...Maybe would have gained another 5 rwhp with out them...
Anyways...My suggestion to you, would be to go with a rear gear swap as your first mod...That way you will still have the stealthy sound and smooth idle that you are looking for...The stock Z06 cam will pull willingly well past the 6600 rpm rev limiter...
I wish I would have done the gears first...Now, the gears will be later this summer instead...
I read alot of the guys really liking the 3.90's in the Z06...
Peace...Gman
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: miami, florida
i understand what you are saying about headers, but i have to find this article somewhere where u can see how good z06 exhaust manifolds are. i even saw that an x pipe swap on a z06 only gives you about 5rwhp. people are super angry at spending $300 dollars for 5rwhp and they will tell you that exhaust wise, the z06 has outstanding flowing capabilities as long as your internals remain the same. of course, if you are going to spray it is always good to get an off rd x pipe.
