408ci afr 225 ?
408ci afr 225 ? I'm getting a 408ci motor with afr 225's 66cc , the motor is going to have everything needed to make good power, meaning rockers, 1-7/8 headers, 42lb injectors, fast 90mm set up and the heads. Do you guys think that I'm going to get good rwhp with the heads that come directly from afr. the reason why I ask is because I've heard that its better when you send them to get ported more, but on the other hand I've also read that you can loose power if their not ported correctly... So if I stay with heads as they are am I still going to get good hp..
Run them right out of the box (or mill them) and you will be fine. The port work on these are fantastic from AFR. If you have someone hand port the CNC version you run the risk of ruining the heads and having very expensive paper weights.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,620
Likes: 17
From: BFE
Originally Posted by AFR
225cc Mongoose LS1 Racing Head Part Numbers
CNC Ported Pairs of Cylinder Heads Complete With Parts and Ready to Install
CNC Street Porting
Description Part Number
225cc CNC Ported w/parts 62cc 1610
225cc CNC Ported w/o parts 62cc 1620
225cc CNC Ported w/parts 72cc 1630
225cc CNC Ported w/o parts 72cc 1640
I'm getting a 408ci motor with afr 225's 66cc
.006x8=.048 mill
That will hurt your flow #s IMO better to wait for the 62cc version to come out.
You can ask Tony Mamo, he will tell you the same.
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Consider this.... Has ANYONE posted above average numbers with reworked or modified AFR's?? (Note: above average when compared to an out of the box AFR in a similar combination...).
Ive seen a few results that might have went the other way....
Save your money guys....IF you ran across the "holy grail" set of ported heads (big "IF"), AFR castings or otherwise, and combined it with the perfect combination to take advantage of them, perhaps you could find a little more horsepower. But the likelihood (and cost) of that happening is slim in my opinion based on what I have personally tested and what we have witnessed at various shops and on the Internet in general.
You might be spending a little more money for the AFR's but your already getting a top shelf extremely optimized efficient piece with proven performance. Spending more money, IMHO at best is the point of very diminishing returns, at worst you just spent more money to go slower. Choose your combination wisely with an out of the box AFR CNC head, couple that with a good install and tune, and you are sure to make big numbers when the smoke clears. If not then at least you can blame it on me and not yourself....
Tony M.
Ive seen a few results that might have went the other way....
Save your money guys....IF you ran across the "holy grail" set of ported heads (big "IF"), AFR castings or otherwise, and combined it with the perfect combination to take advantage of them, perhaps you could find a little more horsepower. But the likelihood (and cost) of that happening is slim in my opinion based on what I have personally tested and what we have witnessed at various shops and on the Internet in general.
You might be spending a little more money for the AFR's but your already getting a top shelf extremely optimized efficient piece with proven performance. Spending more money, IMHO at best is the point of very diminishing returns, at worst you just spent more money to go slower. Choose your combination wisely with an out of the box AFR CNC head, couple that with a good install and tune, and you are sure to make big numbers when the smoke clears. If not then at least you can blame it on me and not yourself....
Tony M.
Looking forward to receiving 62cc 205's from AFR. I will install with VHP/Crane 216/224 Boss 2 camshaft, .040 cometics and various other crane components. Will keep you posted of results. Tony and Jason, thank you for your professional assistance.
Originally Posted by Tony Mamo @ AFR
at worst you just spent more money to go slower. Tony M.
http://www.totalengineairflow.com/pr...gmhead/afrall/
TEA AFR Stage 3 LS1
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100" ---68.1 ---55.1
.200" ---141.2 ---123.9
.300" ---207.5 ---187.1
.400" ---261.6 ---241.1
.500" ---304.6 ---268.3
.550" ---323.4 ---275.4
.600" ---341.2 ---277.8
.700" ---346.0 ---282.2
Best case scenario, you pick up cfm under the curve and gain great HP numbers. AFR's are very pricey just by themselves, and TEA's ported AFR's are even more - but they are better.
I would buy a set of TEA's 6.0L stage 3 heads before I bought the regular AFR 225's. The flow and price advantage are both on the 6.0L side.
Originally Posted by dragonZ28
But he's looking for the best case scenario. Call up brent at TEA. He'll give you all of the info you need to know about porting the AFR's. Here are their advertised specs, and a link to their page:
http://www.totalengineairflow.com/pr...gmhead/afrall/
TEA AFR Stage 3 LS1
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100" ---68.1 ---55.1
.200" ---141.2 ---123.9
.300" ---207.5 ---187.1
.400" ---261.6 ---241.1
.500" ---304.6 ---268.3
.550" ---323.4 ---275.4
.600" ---341.2 ---277.8
.700" ---346.0 ---282.2
Best case scenario, you pick up cfm under the curve and gain great HP numbers. AFR's are very pricey just by themselves, and TEA's ported AFR's are even more - but they are better.
I would buy a set of TEA's 6.0L stage 3 heads before I bought the regular AFR 225's. The flow and price advantage are both on the 6.0L side.
http://www.totalengineairflow.com/pr...gmhead/afrall/
TEA AFR Stage 3 LS1
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100" ---68.1 ---55.1
.200" ---141.2 ---123.9
.300" ---207.5 ---187.1
.400" ---261.6 ---241.1
.500" ---304.6 ---268.3
.550" ---323.4 ---275.4
.600" ---341.2 ---277.8
.700" ---346.0 ---282.2
Best case scenario, you pick up cfm under the curve and gain great HP numbers. AFR's are very pricey just by themselves, and TEA's ported AFR's are even more - but they are better.
I would buy a set of TEA's 6.0L stage 3 heads before I bought the regular AFR 225's. The flow and price advantage are both on the 6.0L side.
these are going on my 408
Originally Posted by dragonZ28
But he's looking for the best case scenario. Call up brent at TEA. He'll give you all of the info you need to know about porting the AFR's. Here are their advertised specs, and a link to their page:
http://www.totalengineairflow.com/pr...gmhead/afrall/
TEA AFR Stage 3 LS1
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100" ---68.1 ---55.1
.200" ---141.2 ---123.9
.300" ---207.5 ---187.1
.400" ---261.6 ---241.1
.500" ---304.6 ---268.3
.550" ---323.4 ---275.4
.600" ---341.2 ---277.8
.700" ---346.0 ---282.2
Best case scenario, you pick up cfm under the curve and gain great HP numbers. AFR's are very pricey just by themselves, and TEA's ported AFR's are even more - but they are better.
I would buy a set of TEA's 6.0L stage 3 heads before I bought the regular AFR 225's. The flow and price advantage are both on the 6.0L side.
http://www.totalengineairflow.com/pr...gmhead/afrall/
TEA AFR Stage 3 LS1
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100" ---68.1 ---55.1
.200" ---141.2 ---123.9
.300" ---207.5 ---187.1
.400" ---261.6 ---241.1
.500" ---304.6 ---268.3
.550" ---323.4 ---275.4
.600" ---341.2 ---277.8
.700" ---346.0 ---282.2
Best case scenario, you pick up cfm under the curve and gain great HP numbers. AFR's are very pricey just by themselves, and TEA's ported AFR's are even more - but they are better.
I would buy a set of TEA's 6.0L stage 3 heads before I bought the regular AFR 225's. The flow and price advantage are both on the 6.0L side.
Originally Posted by jrp
thats funny, sounds just like what PPD did, and we all know how that turned out.....
Originally Posted by dragonZ28
But he's looking for the best case scenario. Call up brent at TEA. He'll give you all of the info you need to know about porting the AFR's. Here are their advertised specs, and a link to their page:
http://www.totalengineairflow.com/pr...gmhead/afrall/
TEA AFR Stage 3 LS1
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100" ---68.1 ---55.1
.200" ---141.2 ---123.9
.300" ---207.5 ---187.1
.400" ---261.6 ---241.1
.500" ---304.6 ---268.3
.550" ---323.4 ---275.4
.600" ---341.2 ---277.8
.700" ---346.0 ---282.2
Best case scenario, you pick up cfm under the curve and gain great HP numbers. AFR's are very pricey just by themselves, and TEA's ported AFR's are even more - but they are better.
I would buy a set of TEA's 6.0L stage 3 heads before I bought the regular AFR 225's. The flow and price advantage are both on the 6.0L side.
http://www.totalengineairflow.com/pr...gmhead/afrall/
TEA AFR Stage 3 LS1
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100" ---68.1 ---55.1
.200" ---141.2 ---123.9
.300" ---207.5 ---187.1
.400" ---261.6 ---241.1
.500" ---304.6 ---268.3
.550" ---323.4 ---275.4
.600" ---341.2 ---277.8
.700" ---346.0 ---282.2
Best case scenario, you pick up cfm under the curve and gain great HP numbers. AFR's are very pricey just by themselves, and TEA's ported AFR's are even more - but they are better.
I would buy a set of TEA's 6.0L stage 3 heads before I bought the regular AFR 225's. The flow and price advantage are both on the 6.0L side.
I just love these guys that post which product is better when they have never owned "the product".
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 576
Likes: 0
From: Chattanooga
Originally Posted by jrp
thats funny, sounds just like what PPD did, and we all know how that turned out.....
Jeremy I know you are a TEA dogger. You always have been even though there has been no reason too. The problem with you is you were to cheap to buy heads from us.You thought you could buy heads that we CNC machined from someone else and get the same quality and flow as we get for less money. You bought heads that were "suppossedly" CNC ported by us and even that has been proven doubtfull. So try all you like to dog us out. The facts are if you had not been trying to save a buck you would not be disapointed with your current head choice.
You don't have TEA heads. We only did the CNC work. As soon as another company touches a die grinder or does a valve job it is no longer our head. When we do a head for another company it does not get a TEA logo unless we do all of the flow related work on that head.
As far as the AFR 225 head it is killer out of the box and flows very well. I just wish they had a 4.030 chamber instead of using the 4.125 chamber on them.
AFR has really concentrated on mid lift numbers and it shows in the fact that stall sometimes before .600 lift. Just by changing valves we have seen a 25 cfm improvment at .600 lift but it cost you in the mid lifts.
If you have an AFR 225 head I would run it as is. We do not ussually modify heads already ported by AFR. We use our own programs on unported bare AFR castings.
Last edited by BrentB@TEA; Jun 27, 2005 at 09:50 AM.
Originally Posted by Silver02
My car has AFR 205's and it put down 439 rwhp through an auto trans. Tony knows what he's talking about. My car also has gobs of low end torque. The stock AFR's work real well.