I'll take his side of the argument any day over yours. If he switched to a 224 he wouldn't retain his stock idle or driveability (or gas mileage, valvespring life, etc) and chances are, he wouldn't go significantly faster (if ANY faster at all,) either. Also would require a tune to run at peak performance, something not necessary with the LS6 cam. There's another $400-$500 to consider.

You've repeated several times that he has LS6 heads compared to your stock LS1 heads. That's nice, but as pointed out, that gain is worth about as much as a catback swap. Have you put a few seconds aside to compare the size of his cam to yours? It's a ridiculous difference, and the fact that he is running faster (especially in a M6 vs. a high stalled automatic) is a testament to how effective his overall setup is over yours.

An outsider's two cents on the entire topic at hand. I'd take a LS6 cam or GT2-3 with a set of LS6 heads over a 224 on stock heads any day of the week without thinking twice about it.

 

Congrats on your times z28ssman. I thought about going with a setup like yours. Great driveabillity and no one knows you have a cam. I think you would make more power and run faster with a bigger cam though. The zo6 guys swap out their LS6 cams for 224's and run faster, so I don't know why you wouldn't. More cam+more power=faster car. Sure you can over cam a car, but with your mods and heads you could easily utilize the extra airflow a bigger cam would give.

 

Because it doesn't. Simple. There are zero LS1 guys at my track running quicker than me with a smaller cam (cam only setup) anytime I've been there. Does that mean anything? NO! But based on your logic that means my cam is superior to anything smaller.

(I take that back, I8AFORD ran 11.28 with a G5X3. It's a little smaller)




You want to play "facts"?

Fact: With the correct combination of mods a larger cam is quicker/faster than a smaller cam. (in the range relevant to us)

Fact: My heads are stock, and I am running the same as you are with LS6 heads.

Fact: I have a good setup. So do you. Different setups accomplish different things with different cars and goals. What's your point?


I guess you are a die hard "my cam is smaller and I am just as fast as you with your big cam, therefore my times are much more impressive than yours. Oh yeah, ignore the LS6 heads. "

I think you'd make a good ricer. I'll bet you could argue all day about your you only have four cylinders are you are keeping up with certain V8's. Follow it up with "if you like your V8 and so-so timeslips, that's your choice.


*In order to use more facts I will do a search when I am home and show you people who did swaps such as LS6->224 and 224->MS3 and see what you have to say about their gains.

 

Umm...actually my logic says your big cam is a waste of money if a stock LS6 engine can go just as fast.

sure.

true, but not in your case obviously....and I have seen 222 cams and 4400 stalls run in the 11.20s.

"And a small/stock cam". Why do you always leave that part out? Would you consider a stock 2002 Z06 to be a heads/cam car?

Smaller cam ran faster than bigger cam. That's my point.

Yes I am. And, I think you are just mad that your big cam didnt do magic and make you faster than everyone in the whole internet world.

Yup exactly. There are a few 10 second "ricers" here....and yes, I do find them more impressive than 10 second V8s...I wouldnt trade, but they are more impressive.

Please do, and waste more of your time trying to tell me a G5X/MS/232 whatever cam is more imressive running in the 11s than a basically stock 02+ LS6 engine.

Just from your ricer comments alone, what I see is that you are totally happy with your setup and want everyone to give you a pat on the back for going 11.92 and nothing ele matters. Maybe you should stop and think for a second that Z28SSMAN is happy with his setup as well....and it probably does everything he wants it to, just as your setup does for you.

The point here is not that bigger cams can go faster..thats not how this topic started. The point is that a smaller cam has run an 11.8 and a bigger cam ran an 11.9.

 

It has been discussed to death; bigger cams with supporting mods (all of them) will make tremendeous power but properly balanced & matched small cam setups are not to be underestimated.
Expl: AFR with 224/228 = 480+ rwhp in a Vette
My cam 224/220, cam only = 404 rwhp in an A4 mind you.

 

Hi Folks
I looked at it this way, they make a great deal of cams with different lifts and durations, etc - we all have different requirements, some like the sound, others want it for performance. If there was one great Cam that would satisfy all our requirements, we all have it. Some of us like strawberry ice cream, some like chocolate, and some like other flavors, that is a personal choice we make - LS6 cam satisfies my requirements and yes I can go bigger and maybe someday I will but right it is not a bad cam.
Thanks - just my two cents

Bill

 

Exactly.

And the fact that the LS6 cam can keep pace with bigger ones doesnt hurt either

 

I think it's time to let this one go fellas...

 

Can I add my 2 cents? My 02 Z dyno'd 366rwhp and ran a best of 11.656@117.75 on M/T ET STREETS. Car had a vortex intake and 30lb injectoers with a maft. I dyno'd the car after I had run the 11.656-then on the dyno i played with the MAFT and car turned the rollers to 376. Then I did a cam 228/230 headers and UD pulley and made 420 rwhp. Ran 11.60@122 with a terrible 60 foot. Then some ported 5.3 heads and 447. Never got down the track because I had some traction control issues as I messed up on my tune-couldn't even do a burn out! Anyway the car was loud and obnoxious-stunk at a stop and with the ceramic clutch bucked and surged at low speeds. Plus after start up you had to let it sit and idle for at least a minute before driving off-not good if your trying to rob a bank-just kidding. This year I went back to basics-I got a set of AFR's and the G5X3 and was going to flycut and install those. Then I saw the new Z06 and said-man I want that and decided to do things a bit different. I let the G5X3 cam go-installed the AFR's and put my stock 02 LS6 cam back in. Now through the stock manifolds, stock Z06 cats and just the big can(quiet)GHL's-the car dyno'd 414rwhp and 395 rwhp torque. How's that! The car drives 100% like stock until you give it-it really get's up and goes-even from 1000rpm -it just takes off like a bullet. I'm very happy with it-plus it passed emssions with flying colours. I just recently added some shorties and will be dynoing it again later this week-if i make 420 -I'll take that. Next mod will be the cheaTR cam-if I make another 10-15, I'll take that. That puts me at 435rwhp-these are just conservative #'s too folks. Add in a fast 90/90 another 15, then say full lenghts another 15. You can get a pretty crazy car with a pretty mild cam. Look at Patrick G's car-395rwhp through those pathetic Fbody manifolds! Man on a good day that car is capable of running 11.60's@117! If he showed up at the track you would swear his car is stock-just imagine how much money he could make street racing-not that we we endourse that. The moral is-you don't need a big cam to make big power. Of course the bigger it is the more you will make but you will be sacrificing alot when it comes to driveability. With the right parts and a plan you can make great power and drink your coffee on you way to work without spilling it because your car doesn't like low speed stop and go traffic.

 

When an LS6 cam runs 10's "cam only", you might have a point. The closer to 10.295, the better.

ONE individual car with an LS6 cam running 0.04 quicker WITH HEADS than ONE individual car with a larger cam (MS3) does not mean ANYTHING AT ALL. Everybody is aware of the fact that "small" cams can go fast. A larger cam, with supporting mods (ie gears/stall big enough to match) WILL perform better, all else being equal. When I say all else being equal, that means the same car with the ONLY change being cam/tune.


Vortech: You do not sacrifice a lot of drivabilty to go larger than a LS6 cam. Not in the LEAST. We were talking of stepping UP to a 224...you shouldn't lose ANY Drivability at all with a proper tune. The issues you mentioned in your thread were from lack of a tune, imroper/incomplete tune or other factors besides the size of the cam. My MS3 maeks my car faster than it would be with an LS6 or 224. It also drives perfectly fine day to day. Right now I don't have to let it sit and idle for more than five seconds before driving away and I still get 99.5% perrfect manners.

 

blkZ28spt=missing the whole point...

forget it.

 

just blow through your stock cam and heads and be done with it! 5-7 psi will go a long way through stock internals!