Big power in an A4
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by EDC
My response was to back up what JZ stated. That's why I quoted "his" post...
475 streetable with the "small" cam criteria in not possible. Bone's streetable package was more in line with the 430 spec that JZ alluded to...
My bad for agreeing with the majority.
I guess next time I'll tell him to run a set of Stage 7.25 ported LS-9.75 heads with a Magic-Rex-X7 camshaft and a super-douper twenty disc lockup torque converter to make 1000 RWHP on a Cyclotronic Model LSD chassis dyno.
Then we can race each other by taping our dyno sheets to the side windows...
Heads-up "Pro Street Dyno" racing at its best!
Wait! I can't race with him since I only have my "Super Street Flow Bench" license.
Ed
475 streetable with the "small" cam criteria in not possible. Bone's streetable package was more in line with the 430 spec that JZ alluded to...
My bad for agreeing with the majority.
I guess next time I'll tell him to run a set of Stage 7.25 ported LS-9.75 heads with a Magic-Rex-X7 camshaft and a super-douper twenty disc lockup torque converter to make 1000 RWHP on a Cyclotronic Model LSD chassis dyno.
Then we can race each other by taping our dyno sheets to the side windows...
Heads-up "Pro Street Dyno" racing at its best!
Wait! I can't race with him since I only have my "Super Street Flow Bench" license.
Ed
Seriously though i agree with you on people getting too caught up on Dyno numbers. 
11 & 7 Second Clubs
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,299
Likes: 0
From: Motorhome, Freeways, Truckstops, Pits
Seee my sig which outlines the 346 FM built for me, which made 453/406. The additional 22 hp you're looking for could come from a combination of a tad more compression, cam and heads.
Originally Posted by GoFast908Z
Here is what I'm looking for:
-STOCK displacement LS1
-no Forced Ind, no juice
-no HUGE nasty cam
-Street driveable and reliable - this is the key
-475 rwhp @ 20% driveline loss works to ~ 600 flywheel hp.
-STOCK displacement LS1
-no Forced Ind, no juice
-no HUGE nasty cam
-Street driveable and reliable - this is the key
-475 rwhp @ 20% driveline loss works to ~ 600 flywheel hp.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
From: Austin, TX
Originally Posted by bickelfirebird
Seee my sig which outlines the 346 FM built for me, which made 453/406. The additional 22 hp you're looking for could come from a combination of a tad more compression, cam and heads.
thats a good combo you have there...nice power especially since that cam isn't the largest cam by any means.
im still not seeing any 460+ 346 A4 cars...
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
From: Austin, TX
Originally Posted by blkZ28spt
I seriously wonder about my dyno. People have told me it looks locked to them, I myself don't really know what to think, and Larry at LS1 speed was almost positive that it was done unlocked. So....
It does only trap 113, although it is an A4 and I do expect that to pick up when fall comes around. I ran the 11.92 @ 112.8 in June.
It does only trap 113, although it is an A4 and I do expect that to pick up when fall comes around. I ran the 11.92 @ 112.8 in June.
it looks locked to me...compare to my graph in the sig...
especially with a 4000rpm stall i would expect a big tq spike @ 3.5krpm, but on your graph it is pretty even and looks to be ~350 tq @ 3.5k rpms which is about right with a locked converter...
my graph spikes to over 400 tq @ 3.5krpms and i only have a little midwest 3200 nitrous stall...
113 seems low on trap speed too...when i was cam only with a 228/230 .571 .573 112lsa i trapped 116 (in pretty good weather though). im sure i wasn't making any more power than you are now, so maybe the crappy weather or elevation is the culprit
Last edited by mikemodano9c; Jul 18, 2005 at 07:55 PM.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 355
Likes: 0
From: Houston,TX
The first thing this guy needs to realize is that percentage loss drivetrain is bull ****. You don't loose a certain percentage no matter what. It takes a certain amount of horsepower to turn the drivetrain whether you have 300 hp or 500 hp. On 6 speed cars with a 10 bolt and stock driveshaft seems to rob 30-40 horsepower. Which people figured was 10%. Fine, 10% of that much power. Just because you have a bad *** motor making 500 rwhp doesn't mean you have 600 flywheel. It still takes the 30-40 horsepower to turn the drivetrain. I personally think that since he has only 10K and needs suspension, tranny, and rearend, he wont have enough left to build a bitchin motor. Especially one that makes 475 through a stalled auto and aftermarket rear. He should do full suspension, tranny, rear and bolt on's and be happy running mid 11's if he hooks hard.
Originally Posted by EDC
My response was to back up what JZ stated. That's why I quoted "his" post...
475 streetable with the "small" cam criteria in not possible. Bone's streetable package was more in line with the 430 spec that JZ alluded to...
My bad for agreeing with the majority.
I guess next time I'll tell him to run a set of Stage 7.25 ported LS-9.75 heads with a Magic-Rex-X7 camshaft and a super-douper twenty disc lockup torque converter to make 1000 RWHP on a Cyclotronic Model LSD chassis dyno.
Then we can race each other by taping our dyno sheets to the side windows...
Heads-up "Pro Street Dyno" racing at its best!
Wait! I can't race with him since I only have my "Super Street Flow Bench" license.
Ed
475 streetable with the "small" cam criteria in not possible. Bone's streetable package was more in line with the 430 spec that JZ alluded to...
My bad for agreeing with the majority.
I guess next time I'll tell him to run a set of Stage 7.25 ported LS-9.75 heads with a Magic-Rex-X7 camshaft and a super-douper twenty disc lockup torque converter to make 1000 RWHP on a Cyclotronic Model LSD chassis dyno.
Then we can race each other by taping our dyno sheets to the side windows...
Heads-up "Pro Street Dyno" racing at its best!
Wait! I can't race with him since I only have my "Super Street Flow Bench" license.
Ed
WHOA WHOA WHOA ED!!!
Stop!!
We all know that new style of racing is the side by side dyno race with a flagger!
11 Second Club
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,524
Likes: 1
From: The South
Originally Posted by mnc2886
The first thing this guy needs to realize is that percentage loss drivetrain is bull ****.
Originally Posted by EDC
My response was to back up what JZ stated. That's why I quoted "his" post...
475 streetable with the "small" cam criteria in not possible. Bone's streetable package was more in line with the 430 spec that JZ alluded to...
My bad for agreeing with the majority.
I guess next time I'll tell him to run a set of Stage 7.25 ported LS-9.75 heads with a Magic-Rex-X7 camshaft and a super-douper twenty disc lockup torque converter to make 1000 RWHP on a Cyclotronic Model LSD chassis dyno.
Then we can race each other by taping our dyno sheets to the side windows...
Heads-up "Pro Street Dyno" racing at its best!
Wait! I can't race with him since I only have my "Super Street Flow Bench" license.
Ed
475 streetable with the "small" cam criteria in not possible. Bone's streetable package was more in line with the 430 spec that JZ alluded to...
My bad for agreeing with the majority.
I guess next time I'll tell him to run a set of Stage 7.25 ported LS-9.75 heads with a Magic-Rex-X7 camshaft and a super-douper twenty disc lockup torque converter to make 1000 RWHP on a Cyclotronic Model LSD chassis dyno.
Then we can race each other by taping our dyno sheets to the side windows...
Heads-up "Pro Street Dyno" racing at its best!
Wait! I can't race with him since I only have my "Super Street Flow Bench" license.
Ed
Maybe you should read my post again.
Originally Posted by XTrooper
Sorry, but there's no frigging way you're going to get 475 rwhp out of a stock-displacement A4 car without using either a "HUGE nasty cam" or a power adder (FI or NO2). One or the other is EXACTLY what you're going to need to make anything near what you're hoping for.
I agree.
Be happy to get 430 with a Very top notch set of heads, 11.0 or better compression, a cam that is in the low 230 duration area or bigger, fast 90/90 combo, Tune, and all other boltons.
Converter is also too small
It clearly says "Be Happy" to get get 430 meaning that is a doable goal for a normal size NOT HUGE cam.
To most of us I thing the biggest size cam would be something like the F13 before you get into Big Cams. Maybe the 231/237 TSP cam as well. The thread started said he didn't want a outragious cam.
As far as your comparision goes, that was a waste of typing. My mom even knows how much easier it is to make power in a M6.
I dont understand why you are geting upset. Someone asked for goals and his goals were dyno numbers. We are posting what is needed to achieve his goals. Who cares if he is looking for dyno numbers. Maybe he dosen't race at the track at all and the ported blower Kobra that waxed him last night made 470 and he wants revenge.
Point is he asked for 475 with a streetable cam nothing huge. I have seen 430 in a 346 A4 with 3800 stall and using a 224/228 cam, 10.9:1 CR, TEA stage 2.5 5.3 heads every bolt on, fast 90/90 through a 10 bolt with 3.42 gears. I have also see a very similar cam make 402 RWHP.
When you find a avarage camed A4 making 460+ RWHP on a DYNO please show me.
Last edited by JZ'sTA; Jul 19, 2005 at 02:00 AM.
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Originally Posted by mnc2886
The first thing this guy needs to realize is that percentage loss drivetrain is bull ****. You don't loose a certain percentage no matter what. It takes a certain amount of horsepower to turn the drivetrain whether you have 300 hp or 500 hp. On 6 speed cars with a 10 bolt and stock driveshaft seems to rob 30-40 horsepower. Which people figured was 10%. Fine, 10% of that much power. Just because you have a bad *** motor making 500 rwhp doesn't mean you have 600 flywheel. It still takes the 30-40 horsepower to turn the drivetrain. I personally think that since he has only 10K and needs suspension, tranny, and rearend, he wont have enough left to build a bitchin motor. Especially one that makes 475 through a stalled auto and aftermarket rear. He should do full suspension, tranny, rear and bolt on's and be happy running mid 11's if he hooks hard.
Prove it and then make the statement.
I myself believe a combo of both.
What you typed is 100% a oponion and if someone new reads this please read more into the subject before you believe this post. AS said above there is a great thread with 100's of theorys and oponion's but very few facts.
Go read it.
Originally Posted by EDC
Does the engine know what's behind it????
Using similar pieces will net the same gains in performance.
This is why I hate all this chassis dyno crap. People get all hung up on a "peak" figure. The power levels this GTO combo made are easily duplicated with an automatic. With the correct torque converter, it'll be even faster than the M6 he's got, let alone it's going into an F-body...
Ed
Using similar pieces will net the same gains in performance.
This is why I hate all this chassis dyno crap. People get all hung up on a "peak" figure. The power levels this GTO combo made are easily duplicated with an automatic. With the correct torque converter, it'll be even faster than the M6 he's got, let alone it's going into an F-body...
Ed
Faster yes. Can you stick a A4 in the car and make the same HP with no other changes but the trans and converter. HELL NO. You can duplicate the power the GTO made but it will take additional mods.
Clear proof is simply by looking at what A4 stock F bodys put down on a dyno compaired to stock M6 F bodys.
You lowest dynoed M6's made as much power as your higher dynoed A4's.
Ok, I need to step in and explain what a NEW thread is. Part 2. This discussion over the original requirements is over. After input from all the boards, i've decided to step outside the 346 ls1. I'm going with a built motor from Rapid Motorsports. Their LS2 402 Stroker. It made massive power: 553rwhp, 490rwtq. Granted, in a 6-speed. Also a higher compression ratio than i can run (limited by 91 octane). Also don't need as big a cam as they used, so figure some power loss...guessing here.....70-80rwhp. That would be fine for my ADJUSTED goal of around 430-440 in the NEW thread, hell, might even break it 
I'm looking for "around" that much power. I'm not trying to be picky or do any dyno chart racing.
I will take it to the track, and i think it won't be just a peak hp car, not with that Dominator engine. Oh and the $10k limit was just for the motor build up. I have a separate budget for the drivetrain. When it comes time to purchase the motor, I'll work out the specs with Rapid Motorsports and see what kind of number it develops. This project is still a ways off. But I'm doing the drivetrain build-up for this project soon, so I needed to know an idea of power to pick appropriate drivetrain components.
I do appreciate everyone's help.
-Jeff
I'm looking for "around" that much power. I'm not trying to be picky or do any dyno chart racing.
I will take it to the track, and i think it won't be just a peak hp car, not with that Dominator engine. Oh and the $10k limit was just for the motor build up. I have a separate budget for the drivetrain. When it comes time to purchase the motor, I'll work out the specs with Rapid Motorsports and see what kind of number it develops. This project is still a ways off. But I'm doing the drivetrain build-up for this project soon, so I needed to know an idea of power to pick appropriate drivetrain components.I do appreciate everyone's help.
-Jeff
Originally Posted by mnc2886
The first thing this guy needs to realize is that percentage loss drivetrain is bull ****. You don't loose a certain percentage no matter what. It takes a certain amount of horsepower to turn the drivetrain whether you have 300 hp or 500 hp. On 6 speed cars with a 10 bolt and stock driveshaft seems to rob 30-40 horsepower. Which people figured was 10%. Fine, 10% of that much power. Just because you have a bad *** motor making 500 rwhp doesn't mean you have 600 flywheel. It still takes the 30-40 horsepower to turn the drivetrain. I personally think that since he has only 10K and needs suspension, tranny, and rearend, he wont have enough left to build a bitchin motor. Especially one that makes 475 through a stalled auto and aftermarket rear. He should do full suspension, tranny, rear and bolt on's and be happy running mid 11's if he hooks hard.
1. Click "Advanced Search"
2. Subject: Drivetrain
3. Member: josh99ta
4. Forum: Dyno section
Its a multi-page post with ALOT of good info on it. Might want to take a look at it before you start calling things "bullshit" or completely discrediting them. I've heard your theory, but the bottom line is that nothing is locked in out drivetrain, and where there are moving parts, there is parasitic loss due to them. Give it a read and learn something.
First of all: DYNO NUMBERS DON'T MEAN ****!!!! I dynoed 363rwhp and spiked at 412rwtq. Cutting a 1.63-60ft I went 11.905@111.78 with the converter locking up. Mods were full exhaust, TR224 cam, M/T drag radials. These are the kinds of times M6's with 425rwhp are seeing, maybe more. My point is to not pay attention to dyno numbers, set an E.T. and mph goal and see what she does. You can't win a race with numbers
