Cam install gained hp but lost torque. Why?
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 62
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Cam install gained hp but lost torque. Why? A buddy of mine went with a 224/226 .58x 114LSA cam and 918's from COMP. It went into a 2002 T/A with all the boltons and just MAC mid-length tubes, and is the exact same setup as before except for the new cam, springs and pushrods.
On the same dyno with the same tuner only 4 months apart, the car put down 5% LESS torque down low up to about 4500 RPM. Then the cam wakes up and pulls to 6500 RMP putting out some 20hp more.
The reason he picked that cam was to improve BOTH the low-end torque and get better performance up top. That cam should not be a top-end cam, so why has it lost torque down low?
On the same dyno with the same tuner only 4 months apart, the car put down 5% LESS torque down low up to about 4500 RPM. Then the cam wakes up and pulls to 6500 RMP putting out some 20hp more.
The reason he picked that cam was to improve BOTH the low-end torque and get better performance up top. That cam should not be a top-end cam, so why has it lost torque down low?
Most any cam that is bigger is going to lose low-end and gain top-end. There is really no way around it. If he he lost 5% torque but gained 20rwhp then I'd say that is a good mid-high cam, which is what I would recommend to someone who wanted good low-end but a real nice top-end. I wouldn't be dissapointed in a 5% decrease in torque for 20rwhp.
My bad I read that wrong. I thought you went from that cam listed to a new bigger one. It should make more than 20rwhp more, but I don't know of any cams that will increase your torque linear to the increase in hp. It just doesn't work that way.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 62
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That's what I thought. Does COMP chime in here to help out people?
Or should he contact COMP with both his dyno sheets and have then look at them? Maybe they can toss him some ideas of things to try...
When a similar cam went in (MTI C2 224/224 .581/.581 112LSA) my car, it already had a set of FLP headers and just boltons. Holy cow, the car instantly loved it and woke up nice. With the cam/tubes at the track, it put down 12 flat in the 1/4 @117 mph (I'm the world's worst driver) and dynoed 387rwhp.
Or should he contact COMP with both his dyno sheets and have then look at them? Maybe they can toss him some ideas of things to try...
When a similar cam went in (MTI C2 224/224 .581/.581 112LSA) my car, it already had a set of FLP headers and just boltons. Holy cow, the car instantly loved it and woke up nice. With the cam/tubes at the track, it put down 12 flat in the 1/4 @117 mph (I'm the world's worst driver) and dynoed 387rwhp.
I read it as the car had a cam already-and the new cam picked up 20hp??? Did you swap out the stock cam? or another aftermarket? Your post is slightly confusing-please clarify. Was the camshaft degreed during the install? Any chance you have a scan/pic of the dyno sheet?
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Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 62
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I'm sorry for the confusion. The car was stock except for the MAC tubes. It was dynoed like that. Some 4 months later he installed a 224/226 cam made my COMP and dynoed at the same dyno and by the same tuner.
The ONLY thing that has changed is the cam, matching pushrods and 918 springs. I think 20 rwhp is not a great gain, and even less so if you're loosing torque all the way to 4500 RPM with the new piece.
A few people we've spoken to, suggest the cam may be wanting a good set of longtubes to breathe better. Any opinions? Anyone from COMP willing to chime in?
The ONLY thing that has changed is the cam, matching pushrods and 918 springs. I think 20 rwhp is not a great gain, and even less so if you're loosing torque all the way to 4500 RPM with the new piece.
A few people we've spoken to, suggest the cam may be wanting a good set of longtubes to breathe better. Any opinions? Anyone from COMP willing to chime in?
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On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 169
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From: Sunrise, Florida
Hey guys, that is me. Yep the cam swap was form stock to a 222/224 0.569 114LSA. Not 224/226. Low end torque was ridiculos compared to the stock dyno pull. WTF is wrong here. and only 20HP gain passing 4500 RPMs. I have Mac mid lenghts headers with Hi-flow cats, cut out and Flowmasters for a catback.
The reason I went with this Cam set up is because I wanted a low - mid range power and instead of that I LOST torque.
The only thing here was the Cam swap, thats it. Same Dyno machine, same software, same tuner guy, same everything.
Can somebody help me figure this out ?????
I`ll attach the stock and the new dyno sheath tonight so you can se the differece.
The reason I went with this Cam set up is because I wanted a low - mid range power and instead of that I LOST torque.
The only thing here was the Cam swap, thats it. Same Dyno machine, same software, same tuner guy, same everything.
Can somebody help me figure this out ?????
I`ll attach the stock and the new dyno sheath tonight so you can se the differece.
Originally Posted by TOZ
Hey guys, that is me. Yep the cam swap was form stock to a 222/224 0.569 114LSA. Not 224/226. Low end torque was ridiculos compared to the stock dyno pull. WTF is wrong here. and only 20HP gain passing 4500 RPMs. I have Mac mid lenghts headers with Hi-flow cats, cut out and Flowmasters for a catback.
The reason I went with this Cam set up is because I wanted a low - mid range power and instead of that I LOST torque.
The only thing here was the Cam swap, thats it. Same Dyno machine, same software, same tuner guy, same everything.
Can somebody help me figure this out ?????
I`ll attach the stock and the new dyno sheath tonight so you can se the differece.
The reason I went with this Cam set up is because I wanted a low - mid range power and instead of that I LOST torque.
The only thing here was the Cam swap, thats it. Same Dyno machine, same software, same tuner guy, same everything.
Can somebody help me figure this out ?????
I`ll attach the stock and the new dyno sheath tonight so you can se the differece.
I think that you have some kind of installation issue-I asked this already, but was the cam degreed? What is your preload? Lifters? Did you do the crankshaft position learn w/ tech2? A dyno graph would help this thread tremendously.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: La Porte, TX
Are the rocker tourqed down properly? You said the same tuner? Does this mean that the car was tuned? It may be a simple tuning issue. Auto or 6 speed? Could you be pushing threw the clutch if M6? Bad 3rd gear if Auto?
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From: sojourning....looking for my city whose builder and maker is God.
Originally Posted by queso
A few people we've spoken to, suggest the cam may be wanting a good set of longtubes to breathe better. Any opinions? Anyone from COMP willing to chime in?
You're only comparing the power gain compared to where the stock cam peaked. At 5500 rpm, you gained 20 rwhp, but your power with the new cam kept climbing another 10 for a total of 365rwhp. Sounds closer to a 30 rwhp gain. Not bad for a cam only swap.
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2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 169
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From: Sunrise, Florida
The car is a M6, Rocker arms were tighten to 22Lbs. When I ment Tuner, ment the Same LS1 Edit, Same guy doing it and same Dyno machine.
That Cam suppost to be a low / mid HP range cam, and the main reason is that I`m not getting nothing in low/mid range, Stock is getting more. Clutch is good on the car.
I followed every step on how to do it. I just don`t know what is wrong.
That Cam suppost to be a low / mid HP range cam, and the main reason is that I`m not getting nothing in low/mid range, Stock is getting more. Clutch is good on the car.
I followed every step on how to do it. I just don`t know what is wrong.
On The Tree
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: St. Clair
Kind of hard to compare the two graphs seeing how the stock graph show rpms across the bottom and the cammed graph shows mph...
Guess we have to a little rpm to gear matching to compare the two curves...
Peace...Gman
Guess we have to a little rpm to gear matching to compare the two curves...
Peace...Gman
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 169
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From: Sunrise, Florida
Originally Posted by Gman2002Z06
Kind of hard to compare the two graphs seeing how the stock graph show rpms across the bottom and the cammed graph shows mph...
Guess we have to a little rpm to gear matching to compare the two curves...
Peace...Gman
Guess we have to a little rpm to gear matching to compare the two curves...
Peace...Gman
NEW CAM DYNO RPM NUMBERS
RPM HP TORQUE
3000 178 312
3500 218 328
4000 267 348
5000 334 349
5500 350 334
6000 358 313
No 4500 rpms numbers were given.