More power, better daily driver MTI VS Comp
More power, better daily driver MTI VS Comp Have 2 cam's and just asking which you would use.
Car is a daily driver but a daily driver that is beat on quite a bit.
Yank 3800 stall, FLP Level 4 trans.
Every Bolt on made is on this car with Jet Hot 1 3/4" LT headers, Dual exhaust, Fast 90/90 etc. Heads are 5.7 heads ported and polished with stock size intake and exhaust valves, 918 springs, etc. Heads flowed just a hair over 300 at like 300.46@ 600 on a local bench. Milled .005 for a clean up.
Old cam is out and sold and a new cam is trying to be decited.
Here are the choices.
224/228 581/588 114LSA vs
MTI R1 cam
232/236 575/578 114LSA
Which is gonna make more power from 4000-6500 RPM's?
I know which is the better daily driver but neither one will bother me. I am more interested with the power.
I like the bigger duration, however the 224/228 has faster ramp rates and higher peak lift numbers. Dont want to go with the Comp lift's as I AM not gonna flycut this motor.
thanks
Car is a daily driver but a daily driver that is beat on quite a bit.
Yank 3800 stall, FLP Level 4 trans.
Every Bolt on made is on this car with Jet Hot 1 3/4" LT headers, Dual exhaust, Fast 90/90 etc. Heads are 5.7 heads ported and polished with stock size intake and exhaust valves, 918 springs, etc. Heads flowed just a hair over 300 at like 300.46@ 600 on a local bench. Milled .005 for a clean up.
Old cam is out and sold and a new cam is trying to be decited.
Here are the choices.
224/228 581/588 114LSA vs
MTI R1 cam
232/236 575/578 114LSA
Which is gonna make more power from 4000-6500 RPM's?
I know which is the better daily driver but neither one will bother me. I am more interested with the power.
I like the bigger duration, however the 224/228 has faster ramp rates and higher peak lift numbers. Dont want to go with the Comp lift's as I AM not gonna flycut this motor.
thanks
Obviously the R1 is gona make more up top. It should pull fairly well to 7k rpm. If your woried about drivability get the 224/228. If you want the most power go with the R1, but I would run a dual spring with the R1.
The R1 has slower lobes which means it will idle much worse than the 224/228 with XE-R lobes. The 224/228 cam will actually be pretty close to the R1 in duration at .200 lift because of its faster ramps. If you already have both cams in your hand, I'd say go for the 224/228 114 cam and install it at 113 intake centerline. It has very good valve events for a 346 and will work better with your 3800 stall. If you had a 4400 stall, I might be more inclined to lean you toward the R1, but the smaller cam will ET better with your current combination (if you put it at the proper ICL).
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
Originally Posted by Patrick G
The R1 has slower lobes which means it will idle much worse than the 224/228 with XE-R lobes. The 224/228 cam will actually be pretty close to the R1 in duration at .200 lift because of its faster ramps. If you already have both cams in your hand, I'd say go for the 224/228 114 cam and install it at 113 intake centerline. It has very good valve events for a 346 and will work better with your 3800 stall. If you had a 4400 stall, I might be more inclined to lean you toward the R1, but the smaller cam will ET better with your current combination (if you put it at the proper ICL).
This is more along what I have been thinking.
I know the 224/228 will idle better, and I just looked at the specs again and its a 113LSA.
This is acturally for a customer's car (reason for no flycut as he refuses) and I have been pushing the 224/228 while he is wanting bigger. He already has dyno numbers with the SAME EXACT combo above and the 224/228 cam and believes the 232/236 cam will dyno higher. I am not sure on that one. We are
right now on the cam choice. I have both ordered and we will be choosing at some point this week. He is worried about dyno numbers more then anything I think. Also patrick thanks for pointing out the bigger stall issue.
The 224/228 made peak power at 6425/6450 before with the same combo as I said and he ran 11.4 with 1.68 60ft times.
To me a solid combo.
Will the R1 cam peak that much higher then the 224/228?
The 224/228 made peak power at 6425/6450 before with the same combo as I said and he ran 11.4 with 1.68 60ft times.
To me a solid combo.
Will the R1 cam peak that much higher then the 224/228?
I ran the r1 in my a4 and it is a excellent cam . It made lots of power. I had mine on a 112 +4 and it made peak power at 6100 and pulled strong through 6800 . I would highly recomend that cam. I think on the 114 it would have idled better but I really never had a problem with a good tune. I have also seen some great results from the 224/228 cam but I never ran it so I wont comment on it. Here is a dyno from my r1 cam. It was started high as my car was down shifting If we started it lower
dyno
dyno
Last edited by offaxis; Jul 24, 2005 at 03:49 PM.
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For the RPM band you stated, obviously the R1 will outperform. The slower lobes, which are probably comp XE's, will still perform well and be ok on the 918 springs. If he is in the market for dyno numbers from 45-6500, use the R1. I'd deffinatlly make sure it had a +4 on it though.
Here are the valve events for the R1:
0.006 0.050 0.200
Intake Duration - ID 285 232 148 3719 lobe
Exhaust Duration - ED 289 236 152 3705 lobe
Lobe Center Angle - LCA (also known as LSA) 114 114 114
Intake Centerline - ICL 110 110 110
Intake Valve opens - IVO 32.5 6 -36 BTDC (- indicates ATDC)
Intake Valve closes - IVC 72.5 46 4 ABDC
Exhaust Valve Opens - EVO 82.5 56 14 BBDC
Exhaust Valve Closes - EVC 26.5 0 -42 ATDC (- indicates BTDC)
Exhaust Centerline - ECL 118 118 118
Overlap 59 6 -78 degrees
Intake closing point at 46 degrees ABDC will make peak power around 6300 rpm. Lots of overlap at .006". 59 degrees = mediocre idle.
Here's the smaller cam:
0.006 0.050 0.200
Intake Duration - ID 273 224 146 3722 lobe
Exhaust Duration - ED 277 228 149 3724 lobe
Lobe Center Angle - LCA (also known as LSA) 114 114 114
Intake Centerline - ICL 113 113 113
Intake Valve opens - IVO 23.5 -1 -40 BTDC (- indicates ATDC)
Intake Valve closes - IVC 69.5 45 6 ABDC
Exhaust Valve Opens - EVO 73.5 49 9.5 BBDC
Exhaust Valve Closes - EVC 23.5 -1 -40.5 ATDC (- indicates BTDC)
Exhaust Centerline - ECL 115 115 115
Overlap 47 -2 -80.5 degrees
Pretty much perfect valve events. 45 degrees intake valve closing point means the cam will peak at a similar rpm and notice how the overlap is centered exactly over TDC. This means the cam will rpm very well. Duration at .200" lift is very close to the R1 cam (148/152 vs 146/149). In all, it's a superior cam design. That's why it gets my vote.
0.006 0.050 0.200
Intake Duration - ID 285 232 148 3719 lobe
Exhaust Duration - ED 289 236 152 3705 lobe
Lobe Center Angle - LCA (also known as LSA) 114 114 114
Intake Centerline - ICL 110 110 110
Intake Valve opens - IVO 32.5 6 -36 BTDC (- indicates ATDC)
Intake Valve closes - IVC 72.5 46 4 ABDC
Exhaust Valve Opens - EVO 82.5 56 14 BBDC
Exhaust Valve Closes - EVC 26.5 0 -42 ATDC (- indicates BTDC)
Exhaust Centerline - ECL 118 118 118
Overlap 59 6 -78 degrees
Intake closing point at 46 degrees ABDC will make peak power around 6300 rpm. Lots of overlap at .006". 59 degrees = mediocre idle.
Here's the smaller cam:
0.006 0.050 0.200
Intake Duration - ID 273 224 146 3722 lobe
Exhaust Duration - ED 277 228 149 3724 lobe
Lobe Center Angle - LCA (also known as LSA) 114 114 114
Intake Centerline - ICL 113 113 113
Intake Valve opens - IVO 23.5 -1 -40 BTDC (- indicates ATDC)
Intake Valve closes - IVC 69.5 45 6 ABDC
Exhaust Valve Opens - EVO 73.5 49 9.5 BBDC
Exhaust Valve Closes - EVC 23.5 -1 -40.5 ATDC (- indicates BTDC)
Exhaust Centerline - ECL 115 115 115
Overlap 47 -2 -80.5 degrees
Pretty much perfect valve events. 45 degrees intake valve closing point means the cam will peak at a similar rpm and notice how the overlap is centered exactly over TDC. This means the cam will rpm very well. Duration at .200" lift is very close to the R1 cam (148/152 vs 146/149). In all, it's a superior cam design. That's why it gets my vote.
Last edited by Patrick G; Jul 24, 2005 at 05:38 PM.
Originally Posted by Patrick G
Pretty much perfect valve events. 45 degrees intake valve closing point means the cam will peak at a similar rpm and notice how the overlap is centered exactly over TDC. This means the cam will rpm very well.
