Just got a set set of Dart 225's
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From: Tinker till it blows, then back it off a notch, maybe!!
Just got a set set of Dart 225's My first set of 225's arrived from Dart via Fedex yesterday!
These have the 8mm/5/16" valve stems.
First impression is that they look nice, but need a little TLC.
If anyone want to know valve weights, etc, let me know. I will be taking them apart later.
At least we are starting to hear that they are a reality and shipping!
These have the 8mm/5/16" valve stems.
First impression is that they look nice, but need a little TLC.
If anyone want to know valve weights, etc, let me know. I will be taking them apart later.
At least we are starting to hear that they are a reality and shipping!
Originally Posted by rjw
Post a list of your questions and I'll see if I can answer them
rjw, are you planning on giving them a quick hand finishing just to clean them up a bit more? Id be very excited to see the results! Keep us posted, and if possible, some pictures to drool over would be nice... 
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From: Tinker till it blows, then back it off a notch, maybe!!
Here is what I have so far
Weight is in grams. Measurements are in inches (Dial caliper or mike)
For comparison, I also measured the LS1 241 parts (used)
Dart 225 LS1 241
Wt of Int valve 101.9 99.9
Wt of Ex valve 91.2 86.1
Wt of retainer 6 11.4
Wt of spring 68.6 69.6
Wt of locks 2.7 2.5
Dart 225 LS1 241
Spring free Lgth 2.160 2.062
Wire diameter .190 .1805
Number of turns 6 1/4 7 1/4
Installed height 1.785 1.801
Int valv dia 2.058 1.997
Ex valve dia 1.6005 1.5495
Int stem dia .3138 .3133
Ex stem dia .3134 .3133
Dart springs are single progressive style (also more air gap between mid coils than end coils)
Intake and exhaust valves are between .025 and .040 longer than LS1
Note: Dart has copper washers and locator under spring, LS1 had only the locator. Also the Dart locators are snug on the head while the LS1's have some side play.
Weight is in grams. Measurements are in inches (Dial caliper or mike)
For comparison, I also measured the LS1 241 parts (used)
Dart 225 LS1 241
Wt of Int valve 101.9 99.9
Wt of Ex valve 91.2 86.1
Wt of retainer 6 11.4
Wt of spring 68.6 69.6
Wt of locks 2.7 2.5
Dart 225 LS1 241
Spring free Lgth 2.160 2.062
Wire diameter .190 .1805
Number of turns 6 1/4 7 1/4
Installed height 1.785 1.801
Int valv dia 2.058 1.997
Ex valve dia 1.6005 1.5495
Int stem dia .3138 .3133
Ex stem dia .3134 .3133
Dart springs are single progressive style (also more air gap between mid coils than end coils)
Intake and exhaust valves are between .025 and .040 longer than LS1
Note: Dart has copper washers and locator under spring, LS1 had only the locator. Also the Dart locators are snug on the head while the LS1's have some side play.
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From: Tinker till it blows, then back it off a notch, maybe!!
Originally Posted by GuitsBoy
rjw, are you planning on giving them a quick hand finishing just to clean them up a bit more? Id be very excited to see the results! Keep us posted, and if possible, some pictures to drool over would be nice...
You'll probably have to look at the heads only type of results, depending on you setup.
I will definitely be giving them SOME TLC.
Probably clean/polish chambers, cc, maybe unshroud if possible, and clean up ports a bit. Also, while they look nice, some minor attention is needed in the de-burring department. Then again, I have been know to be a little fussy.
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From: Tinker till it blows, then back it off a notch, maybe!!
Originally Posted by Orange Peel
Did you stage 3 them yet? 
j/k dude. Can you take some pics PLEASE! Are you going to flow them at all?
j/k dude. Can you take some pics PLEASE! Are you going to flow them at all?
I will probably give them a Stage -2.5 just to see if I can get them to flow as well as my stock 241's...
I can take pictures, but they pretty much look like what's a'ready been posted, withour the porting of course.
The bowl machining is a bit rough. If it was done on a CNC, then some tool vibration set in. I noticed this on the early pics as well, but no big deal.
Originally Posted by rjw
My current project will NOT be a good comparison to anything, in that while the engine build may be somewhat typical of a forged build, a lot of other stuff will be different than most.
You'll probably have to look at the heads only type of results, depending on you setup.
I will definitely be giving them SOME TLC.
Probably clean/polish chambers, cc, maybe unshroud if possible, and clean up ports a bit. Also, while they look nice, some minor attention is needed in the de-burring department. Then again, I have been know to be a little fussy.
You'll probably have to look at the heads only type of results, depending on you setup.
I will definitely be giving them SOME TLC.
Probably clean/polish chambers, cc, maybe unshroud if possible, and clean up ports a bit. Also, while they look nice, some minor attention is needed in the de-burring department. Then again, I have been know to be a little fussy.
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From: Tinker till it blows, then back it off a notch, maybe!!
Originally Posted by GuitsBoy
Im not really looking for a direct comparison, im more interested in simply seeing what people can do with such an inexpensive head. The end product, you know? Im especially interested since youre planning on hand finishing them yourself, which is exactly what I would do with them as well... Im just a bit of a head pervert.
Do a search for my other posts if you care to see what I am attempting.
In the end, the comments will probably be one of the following...
1) Told you so
2) What a dog
3) Wow man you did it
Originally Posted by rjw
I love a sense of humor... more people on these forums could use a bit of work in that area...
I will probably give them a Stage -2.5 just to see if I can get them to flow as well as my stock 241's...
I can take pictures, but they pretty much look like what's a'ready been posted, withour the porting of course.
The bowl machining is a bit rough. If it was done on a CNC, then some tool vibration set in. I noticed this on the early pics as well, but no big deal.
I will probably give them a Stage -2.5 just to see if I can get them to flow as well as my stock 241's...
I can take pictures, but they pretty much look like what's a'ready been posted, withour the porting of course.
The bowl machining is a bit rough. If it was done on a CNC, then some tool vibration set in. I noticed this on the early pics as well, but no big deal.
It's all good, I really don't know shat about the stages, I just listen to what they say Do you think you can fit a 2.080 intake valve next to that 1.60 exhaust? That's ideally what I will be using on my set if it can be safely done.
Well when you are done porting, snap some pics, can't wait to see you Stage -2.5 work!!
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From: Tinker till it blows, then back it off a notch, maybe!!
Originally Posted by Orange Peel
It's all good, I really don't know shat about the stages, I just listen to what they say Do you think you can fit a 2.080 intake valve next to that 1.60 exhaust? That's ideally what I will be using on my set if it can be safely done.
Well when you are done porting, snap some pics, can't wait to see you Stage -2.5 work!!
Stage -2.5 coming soon...
Originally Posted by rjw
Clearance betwen the valve heads is around .080" With 2.08's it would be around .065". Not much dofference, but not good if the valve guides get worn big time. Ask whoever will do the valve swap and let us know what they think.
Stage -2.5 coming soon...
Stage -2.5 coming soon...
Thanks dude!!
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From: Tinker till it blows, then back it off a notch, maybe!!
A bit more info
I don't know about the 205's but it appears that I have a problem with the OEM 3.910 head gasket and these 225's.
A good .030" if not more of the gasket protrudes into the chambers. THis is evident in 3 places between the chambers. Mind you I am checking with a used OEM gasket, with bores that are slightly oval, so don't read too much into this at the moment.
I will be looking for a set that have a larger than 3.910" bore, so if anyone knows of some (MLS) please let me know.
Thanks
I don't know about the 205's but it appears that I have a problem with the OEM 3.910 head gasket and these 225's.
A good .030" if not more of the gasket protrudes into the chambers. THis is evident in 3 places between the chambers. Mind you I am checking with a used OEM gasket, with bores that are slightly oval, so don't read too much into this at the moment.
I will be looking for a set that have a larger than 3.910" bore, so if anyone knows of some (MLS) please let me know.
Thanks
Originally Posted by rjw
A bit more info
I don't know about the 205's but it appears that I have a problem with the OEM 3.910 head gasket and these 225's.
A good .030" if not more of the gasket protrudes into the chambers. THis is evident in 3 places between the chambers. Mind you I am checking with a used OEM gasket, with bores that are slightly oval, so don't read too much into this at the moment.
I will be looking for a set that have a larger than 3.910" bore, so if anyone knows of some (MLS) please let me know.
Thanks
I don't know about the 205's but it appears that I have a problem with the OEM 3.910 head gasket and these 225's.
A good .030" if not more of the gasket protrudes into the chambers. THis is evident in 3 places between the chambers. Mind you I am checking with a used OEM gasket, with bores that are slightly oval, so don't read too much into this at the moment.
I will be looking for a set that have a larger than 3.910" bore, so if anyone knows of some (MLS) please let me know.
Thanks
http://www.thunderracing.com/catalog...vid=3&pcid=157
Hope that helps!
Originally Posted by rjw
Thanks
Sounds like the 3.980's will do the trick.
I don't like having a portion of the gasket hanging in the chamber.
Sounds like the 3.980's will do the trick.
I don't like having a portion of the gasket hanging in the chamber.
j/k