Classic

iTrader: (3)

Forgeting quality -- cause it is a nicely machined piece -- but you should not adverstise it as being used by S.A.M. on the school car because that is not true. You may have sent him one, but it surely wasn't on the motor.

black01_WS6

iTrader: (13)

I have seen one of these up close at EPP- sponsor to the right. It was a very nice piece, oh and it works. I have kept my eye on this since they came out, and am going to be picking one up for my own ride. Its not a bad price at all if it will come with ARP bolts.

Why don't some of the 300 people running these jump in with their experience with the product. there probably won't be too many people that bought it regret buying it.

JL ws-6

iTrader: (50)

I have a question... if you are building a new motor, is ther any of the machining steps that should be done with the girdle in place vs without it.. or can it be added in later? And the ARP main studs that it comes with, are they the standard lenth or differnet, and does having the girdle change the tqing order and the required main cap tq measurments needed?

I'm intrested in hearing more.

black01_WS6

iTrader: (13)

I was thinking the same things, I was just gonna call and ask but maybe we can get this answered for more people. I think the studs are longer, and you can add it to a build w/o problems. But like you I want to know for sure.

JL ws-6

iTrader: (50)

My guess is that the standard studs are long enough, maybe a turn less into the caps is all that will be needed to make the lenth be enough, probbaly not even that. I'd also think that the actual line hone on the cylinders would have to be done with the caps and the girdle attached and tq'ed to spec... as for the actual tq spec changing, I'm sure that there's some adjustment that should be made for the plate, probably a slightly higher tq spec if anything.

I like the idea, it's not going into my new motor, but should I ever have a problem due to a maincap/block issue, the replacment would definately have it. I think that if you are under 800 rwtq, this is probably not a needed piece, same as teh bille main caps, nice... but not needed. this is probably a part that is really aimed for the guys that could probably benefit by stepping up to the world block, when and if it ever is available, but already have the lsx block and want to use it up until there's no life left in it... guys that are tryin to push the envelope pretty hard, the guys with the 1200 + rwhp setups.

Studytime

iTrader: (15)

Sounded like an ME senior project to me, but if that was the case wouldn't you have known how to spell "derivation" from which the word "derive" is derived?

J/K although that should be a fatal mistake.

Was this a senior project? What university?

Ben T.

LC2nLS6

I 2nd the use of girdles on Turbo Buicks. One more feature not yet mentioned- when you do blow up, the girdle minimizes collateral damage by keeping the block together better. I'd rather have a scrap block than a scrap block and scrap tranny when the crank wants to exit the block...been there, done that.

1fastWS6

iTrader: (3)

Not knocking the product and don't take this the wrong way, but, I THOUGHT I knew a lot when I graduated from engineering school. I thought my senior project was pretty professional at the time, but looking back at it now I laugh because it was pathetic.

However, girdles just like that have been proven for years on Buicks and Fords (can't say I've ever seen one for a Chevy) but they don't have the distinct advantage of a deep skirt block like the LSx does. Being a structural engineer, I personally don't see any advantage whatsoever in the case of making a block more torsionally rigid using a girdle. I'm sure it can help, and every bit counts at 800, 1000, 1200+ hp, but the claims seem pretty far fetched to me personally. Most girdles I've seen are less than $200 also. I'd also like to see where you got the specs on that steel, because every 304 ss alloy I'm familiar with has a yield/ult of closer to 35/85ksi not 140/180ksi.

Good luck with the product. Hope you sell a bunch of them.

stage274

I sent one to jud when I first made the product as a donation, he loved it,they definittley used it on one of thier motors.

stage274

no extra machine work, this is truly a bolt on Item. You can put the girdle on without re-aligning the block again. I have done a few of these, when I check the main clearances with a dial bore gauge, the clearances turned out to be evenally distrubuted across the mains (the exact same). The same block with out the girdle the clearences where diffrent. many of my customers confirmed this. you can just add the girdle, but some people might feel they have to align bore ,with the girdle in place. this girdle is unique because it covers the mains caps completely ,from pan rail to pan rail, not only does this increase the strength of the stock main caps significantly, you end up with a block that has the loads evenly distributed across all the mains, wich means a motor that will take the abuse and last under the harshest conditions. All the ARP studs are custom, as far as the tq specs, 60ftlbs inner and 50 ftlbs outter seem to be popular, I used this tq specs, so did Lingenfelter when they built a girdled motor for a customer, other machine shops used 60 inner and 60 outer.

Classic

iTrader: (3)

You want to bet on that one chief? I was there assisting in the assembly of the motor that made the bottom 9 pass and guess what -- it wasn't on there.

stage274

I sent one to you guys about two years ago for free , as a donation to the students, I do not know what happend to it, ask him about it.

stage274

[QUOTE=1fastWS6]Not knocking the product and don't take this the wrong way, but, I THOUGHT I knew a lot when I graduated from engineering school. I thought my senior project was pretty professional at the time, but looking back at it now I laugh because it was pathetic.

However, girdles just like that have been proven for years on Buicks and Fords (can't say I've ever seen one for a Chevy) but they don't have the distinct advantage of a deep skirt block like the LSx does. Being a structural engineer, I personally don't see any advantage whatsoever in the case of making a block more torsionally rigid using a girdle. I'm sure it can help, and every bit counts at 800, 1000, 1200+ hp, but the claims seem pretty far fetched to me personally. Most girdles I've seen are less than $200 also. I'd also like to see where you got the specs on that steel, because every 304 ss alloy I'm familiar with has a yield/ult of closer to 35/85ksi not 140/180ksi.


Your telling me that an ls1 block, which is about three times less dense, than its iron counterpart ,plus the ls1 aluminum block gets weaker every time it heat cycles, will not benefit from a main girdle, that ties in and lays across every main cap. If the ls1 block was so strong , why did gm in thier original design of the ls1 have a girdle in the blueprint? and why did they cast such a thick oil pan ? Why does a girdle on an ls1 make more power than one with out? All I know, we can talk theory all day long, when I measured a 600 horse ls1 block, with darton sleves ( failure of the motor was due to a cracked main cap), the motor was so out of square than I could not believe it. When kurt from wheel to wheel performance was testing the c5r t6 heat treated blocks, they were coming apart when they were approching 1000 horse power, ask him. If the mighty c5r block can not hold a 1000 horsepower, What does that say about the stock ls1. Their are a lot of stock block ls1 out their making 1200 horse plus,my girdle has already been on world record breaking runs. My customers know the diffrence, and I am really suprised, you an engineer, just can't admit that the ls1 which gets weaker with every heat cycle,and has powdered main caps, will not benifit from a main girdle,at any horspower level .

Phil99vette

iTrader: (11)

So you can install ARP Main Studs and not have to align hone??? Every motor I've installed them on has required an align hone.
Phil

stage274

You could do this if you already align honed you engine using arp studs, it has been done before,but I recomond an align hone with girdle in place, That is how I did my motor.

King James

iTrader: (13)

So which is it?

stage274

if you have an exsiting motor with arp studs, it is up to you if you would like to re-align hone the engine again, I have numours people who ran the girdle this way with no ill effects,but I recomend all engines be align hone with girdle in place.

stage274

this is a quote out of hot rod magazine and the pic below is a of an old blueprint of the ls1 , you are looking at a girdle from the factory, that never made it to production, yes a factory girdle!!!!!!
"Centrifugally supercharged street engines of 700 to 1,200 hp should consider the cast-iron 6.0L truck block, with 800-plus horsepower engines using dowel-pinned steel main caps in iron blocks. In fact, above 650 hp, steel main caps are good insurance, but the stock powdered metal caps will work fine below this hp level on everything but nitrous’d engines. Also, on supercharged, turbocharged, or nitrous engines above 900 hp, a main-cap girdle should be used to stabilize the caps. Head studs of 11 mm or greater should be installed above 700 hp for maximum clamping force and used with performance multilayer-steel head gaskets. Boosted and dry-sump-oiling-system engines should use front and rear cover crank seals designed to handle the positive and negative crankcase pressure found in these applications."
you can run big horsepower numbers now on a aluminum block with stock main caps if you are using the girdle.

flyc2a

Great Product!!


I have first hand experience with this girdle. I must say that this is a great piece. I personally have run girdles in all my race cars.

I think that this girdle one of the main reasons i am able to run 768 rwhp on my boosted stock internal Ls6 without any issues. Oh by the way, i burn almost no oil either!

Lastly, why would some people think this is pricey? Well maybe those are the people with stock cars and car payments. If you want to play, you must pay. For all of us real racers....we know that. Others just like to critisize, add their .02, and talk directly from their backside!


BTW- For all who are interested in the girdle. Do not hesitate to call for additional info. They are extremely polite and helpful with all your technical questions.

Bearcat Steve

Surely you mean, "Which university?"