Building Vs Buying
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 9
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Building Vs Buying I'm wanting to build a motor something around 400ci and i'm wanting to do all foged internals so that theres no doubt wether it can handle nitrious or a blower. I just want t oknow if im better off building one or just buying a crate motor. Another thing can you get fuel injected crate motors? estiamted cost would be appreciated with responses...
The difference in price is negligible. I just picked up a motor from TSP instead. I don't think I could have built what I have for what I paid. If you have a pretty good idea of what you want, you can call up one of the sponsors and go from there. From my experience dealing with most of them, most will take the time to explain what you should and shouldn't do, and sell you what you NEED.
I've always favored building over buying but if you can get a sponsor to build you exactly what you want, then you could do that if you wanted. I've never been a big fan of buying crate engines because whatever is in the stock engine is all you get but if you build one then you can build exactly what you want and a lot of the time for the same price as a stock crate engine. It's just according to what kind of deal you can find and exactly what your looking for?
Staging Lane
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 62
Likes: 1
From: Livermore, Ca.
Build it !!! JMHO
Generally, you'll get a lot more for your money. For example, I wanted a nice looking motor. I didn't need a show motor. My Main focus was 750 reliable horsepower so must of my money when into the internals not the polished pieces.
Just make sure whoever builds your motor has done a lot of them. Practice makes perfect even in motor building.
Professional race motor builders know all the nice little tricks to get you a little more horsepower without killing your wallet. Good and accurate machining can yeild that little extra you might want or need.
As said before, just let them know what you are after, listen to their advise. Make your decisions based on balanced motor for your needs. No need putting a $2000 crank in a car that's only going to produce 400-500HP.
However, it sounds like you might be needing that expensive crank if your plans are 1000HP. Just let the builder know what the ultimate goal is.
Good Luck !!
Generally, you'll get a lot more for your money. For example, I wanted a nice looking motor. I didn't need a show motor. My Main focus was 750 reliable horsepower so must of my money when into the internals not the polished pieces.
Just make sure whoever builds your motor has done a lot of them. Practice makes perfect even in motor building.
Professional race motor builders know all the nice little tricks to get you a little more horsepower without killing your wallet. Good and accurate machining can yeild that little extra you might want or need.
As said before, just let them know what you are after, listen to their advise. Make your decisions based on balanced motor for your needs. No need putting a $2000 crank in a car that's only going to produce 400-500HP.
However, it sounds like you might be needing that expensive crank if your plans are 1000HP. Just let the builder know what the ultimate goal is.Good Luck !!
As far as shortblocks go I would have to suggest you look at one of our sponsors. If you add up all the time and money you will have wrapped in in building it (carrying back and forth to machine shop, machine shop costs) you will be right about the same price as it would be to have someone build it. I have two friends who are in this same boat right now (one with a 347 rebuilt forged piston ls1, and one doing a 400 sb2.2 sbc right now) Now, that being said it is important, as indicated before, that you select a really good builder. Just look and see what they've built and how long it's lasting, that should give you an idea of their credentials. Also, call them up and get a feel for how they do things and make your own decision. I did just this and is why I ended up with HPE. Good luck either way!
When I was putting together every thing for my engine I found I couldn't build the short block cheaper than I bought it for. I ended up buying a forged SB from TSP and I built the rest my self. I you have the tools and the skills I would recomend buying a SB that fits your need and then Finding a H/C package and assemble the rest of the engine your self. Just my $.02 good luck.
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I agree, I just bought a shortblock from HPE. After the cost of the components and especially the machine work you're already very close to the price of an assembled shortblock. The price difference may have been a couple hundred dollars, but WELL worth it in my opinion. These guys do at LEAST one LS1 a week.... I'd much rather trust them doing it rather than trust my own first-time LS1 build.
Originally Posted by conan
When I was putting together every thing for my engine I found I couldn't build the short block cheaper than I bought it for. I ended up buying a forged SB from TSP and I built the rest my self. I you have the tools and the skills I would recomend buying a SB that fits your need and then Finding a H/C package and assemble the rest of the engine your self. Just my $.02 good luck.
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From: Tinker till it blows, then back it off a notch, maybe!!
Only time I would recommend building it yourself, is if you KNOW what you are doing and have the tools, measuring equipment and time.
Personally, I don't think that any vendor will do as good a job as a knowledgable person doing it for themself.
I spend a lot of time cleaning stuff up, deburring, etc. not to mention some extra thought to finishing parts such as piston tops, chamjfering holes, etc.
Does this mean a better or stronger engine? Not necessarily, but in my case probably Yes.
If a builder charged even $50 per hour for the extra little work that I do, they would have to add at least $1000 to the base price of my engines.
JMO
Good luck with it.
Personally, I don't think that any vendor will do as good a job as a knowledgable person doing it for themself.
I spend a lot of time cleaning stuff up, deburring, etc. not to mention some extra thought to finishing parts such as piston tops, chamjfering holes, etc.
Does this mean a better or stronger engine? Not necessarily, but in my case probably Yes.
If a builder charged even $50 per hour for the extra little work that I do, they would have to add at least $1000 to the base price of my engines.
JMO
Good luck with it.
i added mine up, and the shortblock would have been about the same price, if i would have gotten it from a sponsor. I got mine done at a good machine shop, and the main difference is being able to drive over to the machine shop and borrow a tool, or ask a question, or have something tapped. The extra customer service ended up being a very good deal for me.
I had this same choice to make, I actually havent completely made it yet. I wasnt sure to have a local engine builder assembly my motor or do it myself. I am 80% sure I am going to do it myself. I plan on having the bottom end balanced at a local engine building shop. They are also going to mic the journals and measure the ID of the bearings and tell me all of my clearances. They are only going to charge about $50 for this compared to the $700 worth of tools I would need to buy to do it myself. They are also going to gap the rings. I know a person with a dial indicator that I can use. I own my own accurate torque wrenches and tools. The things I need to buy are an engine stand, feeler gauge, plastigauge, ring expander, ring compressor, moly lube, assembly lube, cleaning brushes, thread chasers, etc... About $200 worth. I'd start finding out which of your friends has tools that you can borrow.
There is a lot that goes into building a motor. I have spent countless hours on here looking up information and writing it down. I have a few pages of notes that are coverered with part numbers, tolercances, spacings, torque specs, etc... I suggest you go to a book store and buy Will Handzels "How to Build High-Performance Chevy LS1/LS6 V-8s." Its a great book with a ton of info. Also has some info on building motors which will give you a taste of what its like.
There is a lot that goes into building a motor. I have spent countless hours on here looking up information and writing it down. I have a few pages of notes that are coverered with part numbers, tolercances, spacings, torque specs, etc... I suggest you go to a book store and buy Will Handzels "How to Build High-Performance Chevy LS1/LS6 V-8s." Its a great book with a ton of info. Also has some info on building motors which will give you a taste of what its like.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Nov 2005
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My friend has build all his motors for his drag cars, plus he owns a shop so tools is not an issue. He keeps pushing to building one. Just wanted an idea of what most peoples views. Im goin to look into the sponsors for possibly a shortblock.
JMO unless you really really know what your doing, get someone else to build it or pick up a short block. If your $10,000 engine that you built blows up because of something you missed, your SOL. If your $10,000 vendor supplied short block blows up, you have some recourse.
When I built my forged 346 I had picked out most of the parts (I knew what I wanted to do) JE's, eagle rods, AFRs,F10, etc. I took all of the pieces to my local machine shop and I got to watch/help build my motor. I say build my motor but it was perform all the machining and assemble the shortblock. I think it's the best of both worlds. They have the tools and experience to do it right, and they didn't mind me watching/helping. I liked learning how to degree my cam in (lucky we did degree it it was 1' retarded).
After they assembled the shortblock I built the rest of the motor on my engine stand at the house, lifter, heads, pushrods, oil pump, pickup, rockers etc etc etc.
It ended up flawless and you will appreciate knowing that you had a part in building the engine.
I think you will learn a lot if you watch
After they assembled the shortblock I built the rest of the motor on my engine stand at the house, lifter, heads, pushrods, oil pump, pickup, rockers etc etc etc.
It ended up flawless and you will appreciate knowing that you had a part in building the engine.
I think you will learn a lot if you watch
I would buy the shortblock and build the rest. These sponsors mostly build LSX after LSX and know them inside and out. You go to a machine shop and most do Chevy, Mopar, Ford or whatever pays the bills. I let the pros build my LS2. I am in the process of tearing out the LS1 right now. I started yesterday and am already wishing that I had paid someone to pull it (reads back pain). I don't know how someone could do this for a living. I really wish I could spring for a lift but hopefully I wont be doing this again for a long time. Good luck.
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
From: New Jersey
Which would you guys recommend, buying or building, if you are putting this in a non-GM car. Basically, doing a conversion. Would you have someone build it or would you buy a crate (and possibly still need to get the accessories if you have to build it).
I am looking at getting either a LS7 crate motor or a LS2 427, both N/A on pump gas (93/94). I would like to use ETP heads, Harrop intake system and still have the car streetable.
Thanks in advance and I hope the original poster doesn't mind me asking in his/her thread as I thought it was relivant.
I am looking at getting either a LS7 crate motor or a LS2 427, both N/A on pump gas (93/94). I would like to use ETP heads, Harrop intake system and still have the car streetable.
Thanks in advance and I hope the original poster doesn't mind me asking in his/her thread as I thought it was relivant.