BriancWS6

iTrader: (18)

Well evidently you have it all figured out, so good luck with that

BlackHawk T/A

iTrader: (3)

This thread had nothing to do with Torque Converters in the first place...but to pick one you need to know where your powerband is, and where you want your shift extension. Without that you can't pick the optimal stall speed. Now to know these things, you need to build the engine first. This is all pretty basic stuff.

Anyways still looking for some input on this question:

orangeapeel

iTrader: (18)

The offset in LSA will help a little. I would think that you could DD a TR230, and spray it that 1% of the time at the track. The tolerable level would still be mild. Just depends on what you can tolerate. Mine is longtubes and off-road x with turndowns and still has a good chop with a semi ok tune even on a 115 LSA.

BlackHawk T/A

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for all the input so far. Still real hard to make a decision though. I want to do it right the first time.

F11 114 vs TR230 112...

darrensls1

The point is not whether you asked about torque converters. The point was that putting a heads/cam/N20 package on an A4 car with the stock torque converter is a bad idea. Heck the stock torque converter on a stock motor LS1 is a bad idea. These cars should have come with a 3000 stall from the factory IMO.

But you should all ready know this. To pick the optimal stall only requires knowing what cam you want (all the data on where any particular cam makes its torque is at your fingertips) and whether or not you are going to spray (and you said you planned on N20).

You don't need to build the engine first. You just need to decide "how" your going to build the engine and how much N20 you want to spray (if any). Once you have a plan down on paper you can start buying parts including the transmission and torque converter.

I thought it was but perhaps not. There is a natural order to certain mods. For example, putting a big cam in before any exhaust mods would be silly. dyno tuning a car before a cam would also be a bad idea. And whether or not you want to believe it, putting a heads/cam package on before a stall is also a bad idea.

I can tell you right now by what I read from your goals that you would be wise to get a 3800 stall. But how could I know that? Because of three things I read.

1). You want streetability and are looking at "mid size" cams. This means 4000+ stalls will not be desired as they are not very daily driver/street friendly by most peoples standards.

2). You want to run N20 in the future. Large stalls + N20 can often cause rev limiter issues. Stalls in the mid to upper 3K range have been proven to be a good match for up to 200 shot N20 cars.

3). You want to be in your powerband. Too small of a stall puts you under your powerband which makes your car slower then it could be. The stock stall puts you way under your power band in this case. Too much stall will not compliment a standard shot of N20 (by standard I am referring to 100-200 since very few go higher or lower). The cam helps you raise this powerband but unless you start looking at big cams (MS3 and such) the 3800 size should remain a good match.

The stock 4L60E was not designed to hold the kind of power you're going to throw at it. I understand that money is an issue but look at it this way. If you invest in the Transmission, stall and perhaps suspension upgrades now then the car is still driveable (and alot more fun) the entire time that you save for the heads/cam package. Even if it takes 2 years you can enjoy the car for those two years as it is. If you get the heads/cam package now and blow the tranny up (and perhaps rearend as well) a week later, then your car is down and out the entire time it takes you to save for that built trans, stall, labor fees, ect.

Just building powerful motor is not wise if other parts of the car are unable to handle it. The two weakest links here are the 4L60E and 10 bolt rearend.

I'm probably going to get flamed for this post but I don't care. I wish you alot of luck with your car and I hope it all works out well.

PREDATOR-Z

So far more or less OK, no flames



Well unless the cam is designed for that purpose (small flame)
Actually it is a great idea to know your base so you know what you gain (bigger flame)
Again that is unless the cam fits the stock stall specs.

[quote]I can tell you right now by what I read from your goals that you would be wise to get a 3800 stall. But how could I know that? Because of three things I read.

1). You want streetability and are looking at "mid size" cams. This means 4000+ stalls will not be desired as they are not very daily driver/street friendly by most peoples standards.[quote]
That is completely false, verter are not only defined by stall speed, but also by shift extensions and STR.
i could kick myself in the but (2 years ago) for not having purchhased a SS4000 yank right off the bat for my ex 224/220 XE-R cam

That all depends on how you are shooting your nitrous.

[quote]3). You want to be in your powerband. Too small of a stall puts you under your powerband which makes your car slower then it could be. The stock stall puts you way under your power band in this case. Too much stall will not compliment a standard shot of N20 (by standard I am referring to 100-200 since very few go higher or lower). The cam helps you raise this powerband but unless you start looking at big cams (MS3 and such) the 3800 size should remain a good match.[quote]
That is conservative IMO, minimum 4000 then > 4400

M6 YES, but Autos preload the rear more instead of shocking it so the 10 bolt can last longer than you think (I've blown 2 motors, 1 tranny but still have my 10 bolt)

Opinions are what makes this a super nice forum

BlackHawk T/A

iTrader: (3)

darrensls1, thanks for the input, but you need to realize i'm not adding 120+ HP to my car and then going out and racing it. You make it sound like that is my goal, and it is not. The car won't be ready until after the new trans and converter. Not to mention wheels/tires, and suspension. No one has mentioned these yet, and if you think about it, you could bring up the same argument again. It's useless to have all that power and not be able to keep the car under control...

A Yank SS3800 is what I had planned, behind an FLP Level 4. If you guys really think I should do that first, I will consider it. I'll just have to save up a bit more (it's only money).

PREDATOR-Z

If you plan on nitrous, do a Level 5. I have a Level 4 (1.5 year) and I have 2>3rd shift slipping under nitrous.

BlackHawk T/A

iTrader: (3)

But I thought the Level 5 just added the different planetaries? That wouldn't be your problem would it? Man those things are expensive.

darrensls1

That is true. I have heard about the cheater cam. But most cams would benifit greatly from LT headers and some form of a catback.

I agree to a point. Do all bolt-ons and then get a dyno tune. Then heads/cam and dyno-tune again. But it would be a complete waste of $500 to dyno tune a stock car and then a week later add a big cam and pay another $500. In fact many people have gone full bolt-ons with no tune, added a cam and then tuned the car for the first time. It can still work out even without a base run. I take that as no flame.





The cams he's considering do not fit the stock stall specs. I don't think the stock cam fits the stock stall specs. But that's just me.


An off the shelf 3800 stall would tend to have an STR of 2.6 and a shift extension of around 5000. Both of which would compliment a nice 150 shot of N20 with a 230/230 114 type cam. Some people like big stalls and others do not. A 3800 shelf stall (insert Yank, TCI, PI or whoever you like here) would compliment his streetability goals nicely. I don't see anything false about a 3800 stall being streetable and N20 friendly.

It may be a tad on the conservative side but then he did say

That means different things to different people. If he was talking stricly NA I would likely say get a SS4000 or maybe even a 4200 stall. But N20 and daily driver and gas mileage conscience = under 4000 to me.

Agreed. But once anyone starts to hit 1.6 or less 60' times they will put the 10 bolt at risk A4 or not. If he gets a 400ish rwhp car and sprays say a 150 shot on top of that he could see a broken 10 bolt especially if he sprays out of the hole. This is again with the assumption of a 2.6 STR and sticky tires. All I'm saying is that setup does put the 10 bolt at risk. Whether it breaks or not would remain to be seen.

100% agreed.

BlackHawk T/A

iTrader: (3)

I believe the Yank SS3800 has a 2.5 STR.

darrensls1

Built 4L60E's are very expensive. Before you commit to that you should do just a little research on Rock-on transmissions. I have been hearing about these things holding for people in the 9's and they come with a 1 year warranty. I have also heard great things about FLP too though.

Me personally, I'm going straight to TH400 with transbrake. I refuse to be one of the guys who you see posting on how they are on thier 3rd or 4th built 4l60E's. Once my stocker goes I'm just gonna make the big plunge. It'll suck losing OD but then again I don't daily drive it anymore anyway.

Good luck

darrensls1

Could be. The TCI has a 2.7 so that's why I quoted that number. But then again you could have one custom made with any STR you like. I like my 3500 / 2.5 STR combo but I think when I make the TH400 jump I'll up this to a 4000 stall with a 2.7 STR

EDIT. My bad. It's a 2.6 STR not 2.7 that comes with the TCI 3800. But what's .1 between friends

BriancWS6

iTrader: (18)

FINALLY, someone else that backs me up!

Blackhawk what you are going to have to realize is that we are not trying to tell you this stuff to make you look wrong, we are trying to help you make the best decisions possible.

There was once a time back when I had my first LS1 car (A4) that I didn't know much at all, and if it weren't for the knowledgable people on this board I would have wasted a bunch of money and time doing this less than optimum.

Instead I researched, researched, researched, and took guys advice that new what they were talking about, and that's how I am able to give my advice to you today.

Good luck with your project, and remember, we are here to help

BlackHawk T/A

iTrader: (3)

Another thing...I wouldn't be spraying through the shifts anyway...can't be good for it?

darrensls1

Definately not good for it. But alot of people do it anyway and still have thier trannys survive a long time. Do a search in the nitrous section here using the keywords "spray through shift" . You'll see alot of debates on that issue. The general consensus is that you can do it, many people do it, you'll get a faster time if you do it but your 4L60E transmission will lose some of its longevity as it takes more abuse by you doing it.

Since this is more of a street car and less of a drag queen, I think you're making the right call to not spray through the shifts.

BlackHawk T/A

iTrader: (3)

I would but the search is still dead. It seems to work if I try a very simple search, like 1 word...but multiple words are no-go.