tr224 vs f13 which is better
03-09-2006, 04:28 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by Geoff
It's kind of an apples and oranges comparison. The F13 is a larger cam and as such should make more top end power. A more fair comparison would be either our TR224 to other 224 sized cams out there or in comparing the F13 to one of our 230 duration cams for the LS1, such as either the TRak cam or the TR230.
To say that either the F13 or TR224 is 'better' is really stretching things. Those cams are VERY different and meant for different applications.
To say that either the F13 or TR224 is 'better' is really stretching things. Those cams are VERY different and meant for different applications.
I have the F13 and LOVE it, however it does lope and draw more attention than I currently would like. I was under the impression from the other users it was a little more low profile than it truly is! However it's street manners are just as good with a good tune and the top end of he F13 does make a difference above 4K (IMO) with no noticable trade off below that.
Put it this way I can hold off a 150 shot on a bolt on auto with my NA set up in full street trim and a full tank with the exhaust closed up through 4th gear!
03-09-2006, 04:29 PM
#23
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My combo was with home ported heads, ls6 intake, ported Tb, underdrive pulley, and true duals. Now I am waiting to see how it will do with a 383 in place and the same cam.
03-09-2006, 04:36 PM
#24
Originally Posted by GuitsBoy
honestly once you get the tune dialed in and run enough timing down low, the f13 dosnt noticeably lose any torque down low, especially if you add gears to the mix. Up top and it just screams. Many 400+ RWHP cam only cars running the f13.
Here's an old comparo from when I had heads on it.....
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...&highlight=f13
03-09-2006, 04:38 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by okls1
I am looking into both of these cams as well, but most people on here say FM13. I read on another post the TR224 beat the FM13 up to 5600 and was only down 10rwhp peak... 
Since it has more power for most of the rpm band is the FM13 that much better? For street use with m6 on 4.10s? Just curious, Thanks 
Since it has more power for most of the rpm band is the FM13 that much better? For street use with m6 on 4.10s? Just curious, Thanks BTW - I agree with all the guys that suggested the F-14 (wicked Lope
), and I looked really hard at this cam before picking the TSP 233/239 to put in. (Guess you can see why I liked the F-14 suggestions..)
03-09-2006, 09:39 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by Geoff
It's kind of an apples and oranges comparison. The F13 is a larger cam and as such should make more top end power. A more fair comparison would be either our TR224 to other 224 sized cams out there or in comparing the F13 to one of our 230 duration cams for the LS1, such as either the TRak cam or the TR230.
To say that either the F13 or TR224 is 'better' is really stretching things. Those cams are VERY different and meant for different applications.
To say that either the F13 or TR224 is 'better' is really stretching things. Those cams are VERY different and meant for different applications.
i have mauled ls1 cars with bigger cams. my 224 is making power way before the bigger cammed cars are.
03-09-2006, 09:45 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by ChiefDave
I had a TR 224 in my car when I was going FI. Nice cam, great torq and pull from idle but it does get thin a bit above 6500. IMO a F13 or F14 would make more peak, and pull harder on top.
Dave
Dave
if youre playing around on the street, you want a 224 type cam.
the 224 will out pull the f14 in low and mid range and the f14 will have to play catch up. most of the time the run will be over and he wont catch up.
03-09-2006, 10:40 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by 4mula
pull above 6500 isnt what everybody wants.
if youre playing around on the street, you want a 224 type cam.
the 224 will out pull the f14 in low and mid range and the f14 will have to play catch up. most of the time the run will be over and he wont catch up.
if youre playing around on the street, you want a 224 type cam.
the 224 will out pull the f14 in low and mid range and the f14 will have to play catch up. most of the time the run will be over and he wont catch up.
Justin
03-09-2006, 10:42 PM
#29
im sure the f13-14 will make more power..its obvious. but like what 4mula said, if you run a big cam you gotta keep it high in the rpm band to use the power where its useful..3500-6700 rpm...on the street..thats crazy...the 224 cam is much better suited for daily driving and street racing cuz of the more tq it puts down low. and there are some guys who nearly put out 390rwhp with a 224 cam on stock heads while people with huge cams barely get that. im looking at a 228/230ish size cam for me. seems like the perfect size cam for the street. plus if you go big on the cam, you will have to change the springs like every 10k miles.. plus there have been some bad issues going on with those futral cams lately..
03-09-2006, 11:03 PM
#30
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Originally Posted by 99blancoSS
WHat makes you say that? Here are some numbers of a fm13 vs a tr224. The tr224 out pulls it all the way to 5800 rpms then the fm13 peak by 10 more hp. Unlss you running your car at 600 rpm and higher your not gonna out pull the tr224. Also the fm13 never beats it in torque. The torquer cam will do the same but will produce more torque than the fm13 but all the power is gonna be past 5800 rpms as well. The bigger the cam the latter the power, which is ok at the track but not ideal for a street driven car. Get the tr224 on a 112 lsa. My numbers are in my sig. Peak numbers dont mean squat, in a DD car
tr224 fm13
rpms hp tq hp tq
2700 - 170, 331 .. 163, 313
2800 - 181, 338 .. 167, 313
2900 - 189, 342 .. 172, 313
3000 - 200, 348 .. 182, 316
3100 - 209, 355 .. 187, 319
3200 - 219, 360 .. 200, 327
3300 - 229, 365 .. 210, 333
3400 - 238, 368 .. 219, 338
3500 - 245, 369 .. 227, 341
3600 - 254, 371 .. 237, 345
3700 - 263, 374 .. 246, 348
3800 - 273, 376 .. 253, 350
3900 - 279, 377 .. 262, 353
4000 - 288, 377 .. 270, 355
4100 - 296, 378 .. 278, 356
4200 - 303, 379 .. 285, 357
4300 - 310, 379 .. 293, 358
4400 - 319, 380 .. 301, 359
4500 - 327, 383 .. 309, 361
4600 - 339, 385 .. 319, 364
4700 - 346, 387 .. 330, 367
4800 - 353, 387 .. 338, 370
4900 - 362, 388 .. 346, 372
5000 - 368, 387 .. 354, 372
5100 - 374, 385 .. 361, 371
5200 - 379, 383 .. 366, 370
5300 - 384, 380 .. 371, 368
5400 - 389, 377 .. 378, 367
5500 - 392, 375 .. 383, 367
5600 - 395, 371 .. 390, 365
line graph goes beyond 5600 rpms, this was a print out of the numbers. I'm sure I dont have to convince anyone the fm13 had more peak.
Here let me break it down for you:
at 4000rpms - the tr224 is putting down 288hp, and 377 ft#'s of torque .. the fm 13 is putting down 270hp, and 355ft #'s of torque. The fm13 has 18 less hp and 22 ft #'s less torque. Which is the better cam at the rpm range? That is what you need to consider. At what rpm range are you going to drive your car and where do you want your power. Some say (with experience)rods bolts are suspect after 6500 rpms. Perosnaly I dont know, I rev limit at 6300 rpms. Dont need to buy a new botton end just yet.
tr224 fm13
rpms hp tq hp tq
2700 - 170, 331 .. 163, 313
2800 - 181, 338 .. 167, 313
2900 - 189, 342 .. 172, 313
3000 - 200, 348 .. 182, 316
3100 - 209, 355 .. 187, 319
3200 - 219, 360 .. 200, 327
3300 - 229, 365 .. 210, 333
3400 - 238, 368 .. 219, 338
3500 - 245, 369 .. 227, 341
3600 - 254, 371 .. 237, 345
3700 - 263, 374 .. 246, 348
3800 - 273, 376 .. 253, 350
3900 - 279, 377 .. 262, 353
4000 - 288, 377 .. 270, 355
4100 - 296, 378 .. 278, 356
4200 - 303, 379 .. 285, 357
4300 - 310, 379 .. 293, 358
4400 - 319, 380 .. 301, 359
4500 - 327, 383 .. 309, 361
4600 - 339, 385 .. 319, 364
4700 - 346, 387 .. 330, 367
4800 - 353, 387 .. 338, 370
4900 - 362, 388 .. 346, 372
5000 - 368, 387 .. 354, 372
5100 - 374, 385 .. 361, 371
5200 - 379, 383 .. 366, 370
5300 - 384, 380 .. 371, 368
5400 - 389, 377 .. 378, 367
5500 - 392, 375 .. 383, 367
5600 - 395, 371 .. 390, 365
line graph goes beyond 5600 rpms, this was a print out of the numbers. I'm sure I dont have to convince anyone the fm13 had more peak.
Here let me break it down for you:
at 4000rpms - the tr224 is putting down 288hp, and 377 ft#'s of torque .. the fm 13 is putting down 270hp, and 355ft #'s of torque. The fm13 has 18 less hp and 22 ft #'s less torque. Which is the better cam at the rpm range? That is what you need to consider. At what rpm range are you going to drive your car and where do you want your power. Some say (with experience)rods bolts are suspect after 6500 rpms. Perosnaly I dont know, I rev limit at 6300 rpms. Dont need to buy a new botton end just yet.
03-10-2006, 09:58 AM
#31
im pretty sure the 224 would pull. it will get in its powerband alot quicker. but im sure the f13 cam will slowly start to pull. why not just go a little bigger than the 224 like a 228/228 or so...ive pm a few people with a 228/228 and they are all happy with it.
03-10-2006, 10:52 AM
#33
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IMO and from what I have personally seen a properly geared F13 will be a good bit quicker than a comparable 224 cammed car. The key is getting the larger cam into it's powerband faster, hence 4.10+ gearing. If the F13 car was running the stock 3.42's I would give the advantage to the 224 car from a dig. When roll racing you want the biggest stick you can get as normal starting rpms range from 4500-6000K rpms.
As to the above numbers between the F13 & TR224...... They look awfully low for the F13 to me. Seems there's a slant there......
As to the above numbers between the F13 & TR224...... They look awfully low for the F13 to me. Seems there's a slant there......
03-10-2006, 02:39 PM
#34
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I have been looking at cams between the 224 and FM13 smallest to biggest respectively. I just didnt want to put in bigger cam if the 224 would be just as good if not better for the street. I guess since I have 4.10s the FM13 will be faster. Im just scared a 224 will not be enough. Then there are also the MTI X1... I didnt like the XER lobes of the 228 since I want it to last. Just everyone says go big on the first cam and dont want to replace springs every 10k but I think futural lobes are not too bad. Think im leaning towards a FM13 right now. Thanks for the input everyone keep it coming. 
I guess since I have 4.10s the FM13 will be faster. Im just scared a 224 will not be enough. Then there are also the MTI X1... I didnt like the XER lobes of the 228 since I want it to last. Just everyone says go big on the first cam and dont want to replace springs every 10k but I think futural lobes are not too bad. Think im leaning towards a FM13 right now. Thanks for the input everyone keep it coming.
03-10-2006, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by okls1
I have been looking at cams between the 224 and FM13 smallest to biggest respectively. I just didnt want to put in bigger cam if the 224 would be just as good if not better for the street. I guess since I have 4.10s the FM13 will be faster. Im just scared a 224 will not be enough. Then there are also the MTI X1... I didnt like the XER lobes of the 228 since I want it to last. Just everyone says go big on the first cam and dont want to replace springs every 10k but I think futural lobes are not too bad. Think im leaning towards a FM13 right now. Thanks for the input everyone keep it coming.
I guess since I have 4.10s the FM13 will be faster. Im just scared a 224 will not be enough. Then there are also the MTI X1... I didnt like the XER lobes of the 228 since I want it to last. Just everyone says go big on the first cam and dont want to replace springs every 10k but I think futural lobes are not too bad. Think im leaning towards a FM13 right now. Thanks for the input everyone keep it coming. 
I used to think that way before 4.10's.
Now, I'm just worried about my 10-bolt, ringlands, and rod bolts. Bring on that big lopey cam; go for the F14
03-10-2006, 03:42 PM
#36
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Well not really worried about driveability because I have 4.10s and I will put up with it for more power. This is my only car though and a DD so I want to keep it somewhat reliable. That is my main concern but I am also wanting to go faster 
Maybe the TR230 will or MTI X1 will have to do the trick unless everyone thinks the FM13 will be reliable and faster if I dont shift higher then 6500. I have been reading about cams like crazy lately and still cant decide. 
Maybe the TR230 will or MTI X1 will have to do the trick unless everyone thinks the FM13 will be reliable and faster if I dont shift higher then 6500. I have been reading about cams like crazy lately and still cant decide.
03-12-2006, 01:51 AM
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03-13-2006, 12:39 PM
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Ok thanks. Wouldn't the XER lobes be harder on the valvetrain? Since its a DD I dont want to have to change the springs every 10k 
The powerband on that car does look pretty good though. 
The powerband on that car does look pretty good though.
03-13-2006, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by okls1
Ok thanks. Wouldn't the XER lobes be harder on the valvetrain? Since its a DD I dont want to have to change the springs every 10k The powerband on that car does look pretty good though.
The powerband on that car does look pretty good though.