rod bolts
rod bolts about to start a head and cam swap soon with a MS3 a Course 
and I was thinking with how high the RPM are going to be running is it a good idea to change the rod bolts out while I'm at it its a 2001 I don’t won’t to turn a bearing but I dont wont to do all that work of taking the engine out if its not Necessary
and I was thinking with how high the RPM are going to be running is it a good idea to change the rod bolts out while I'm at it its a 2001 I don’t won’t to turn a bearing but I dont wont to do all that work of taking the engine out if its not Necessary If you wanna do it right, ARP recommends that you resize the stock rods when you switch to their bolts. Since the LS1 rods are "cracked cap" rods, you cannot grind the caps so you have to just hone .002" out and order a special clevite bearing.
I hear Katech makes a rod bolt that doesn't require yoou to resize the rod. Just a thought.
I hear Katech makes a rod bolt that doesn't require yoou to resize the rod. Just a thought.
You dont HAVE to resize with ARP either. Many people have installed ARP rod bolts without resizing and are running perfectly fine. As for the stockers, I spin my 2002 up to 6800 without putting a hole through the block.
Originally Posted by GuitsBoy
You dont HAVE to resize with ARP either. Many people have installed ARP rod bolts without resizing and are running perfectly fine. As for the stockers, I spin my 2002 up to 6800 without putting a hole through the block.
Use the Katechs and remove the oil pan. There is enough room for the swap with the pan removed.
Also be sure to leave the stock bolts threaded in a little bit so you can pull out the ferrules with it.
Also be sure to leave the stock bolts threaded in a little bit so you can pull out the ferrules with it.
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Originally Posted by KCS
I know people don't do it, thats fine and dandy, but your probably on the verge of chunking a rod out the side of your block. Switching to better rod bolts would usually change how the bore is distorted when torqued to spec. This could decrease bearing clearance, especially at higher loads, and pinch off oil to the bearing. But chances are if your on stock rods, your not making that much power anyways so you can get away with it. I would just rather do it the right way. Thats just me.
Also, power has little if anything to do with failed rod bolts, its all about RPM. The 01 and 02 LS1's got the same rodbolts as the LS6 motors got. The LS6's have a 6600 rev limitor stock. Considering that, I dont see spinning to 6800 a major issue.
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Originally Posted by GuitsBoy
Measurements show no appreciable difference in roundness between the katechs and ARPs. Its just that katech tells you that you can just do the swap, which ARP covers their *** from any liability.
Originally Posted by GuitsBoy
Also, since we run cracked powdered metal rods, we cant do a conventional resize. The most we can hope for is to bore out and run oversized bearings. At this point youre practically at a rebuild, which IMO is not necessary since even the ARP pro bolts dont distort the cap out of spec. One other concern is that the ARP pro's weight slightly more, but its also well under the normal balancing variances, so I dont see a problem there either.
Originally Posted by GuitsBoy
Also, power has little if anything to do with failed rod bolts, its all about RPM. The 01 and 02 LS1's got the same rodbolts as the LS6 motors got. The LS6's have a 6600 rev limitor stock. Considering that, I dont see spinning to 6800 a major issue.
Originally Posted by KCS
What measurements? Your own? Or is there a credible scientific test that came to that conclusion? I have never measured to verify a difference between the two, and I'm not doubting what your saying, but I like to see references. The variable I can see is if you torque the ARP rod bolt to factory specs compared to torque to a rod bolt stretch.
I do the same with stock rods. .002" oversize and clevite bearings. But I have always been taught that when switching to different bolts, or going from bolts to studs, always resize. Especially main housing bores.
I never said anything about a rod bolt failure, which I believe would be related to Piston Speed, not RPM. I said Bearing Failure, which could easily destroy a rod and rod bolts if starved of oil, which could happen if the bore was out of round to a point that it caused the bearing to pinch the crankshaft rod journal.
BTW, im not trying to start an argument. Just passing along info
Originally Posted by GuitsBoy
Also, power has little if anything to do with failed rod bolts, its all about RPM. The 01 and 02 LS1's got the same rodbolts as the LS6 motors got. The LS6's have a 6600 rev limitor stock. Considering that, I dont see spinning to 6800 a major issue.
have mine shifting at 6900 and it has been up there probably 20 times in the last 3 weeks
and it was spun to 7000 on the dyno for tuning and this is with 273 gears so it was chillin up there for a while and its fine. They have had these cars over 7300 on stock bolts for testing dont know how often though.
Thanks everyone for your help I really appreciate it, my car is a 6 speed that leaves it to more mishaps like a missed shift,
From what I can tell they don’t cost that much. But they are a pain to change out someone said I could change them with the block in the car I don’t see how? If I go through with this is there anything I should know or do I will more than likely use the ARP’s
From what I can tell they don’t cost that much. But they are a pain to change out someone said I could change them with the block in the car I don’t see how? If I go through with this is there anything I should know or do I will more than likely use the ARP’s
Originally Posted by KCS
I said Bearing Failure, which could easily destroy a rod and rod bolts if starved of oil, which could happen if the bore was out of round to a point that it caused the bearing to pinch the crankshaft rod journal.
*ARP Pro Series rod bolts have a tensile strength of ~220,000psi*
Originally Posted by HottLS1Z
Correction=2000 and up came with "LS6" Rod bolts too. GM Changed to that design for the 2000 model year and up and used the same bolts in the LS6&LS2. If not I would not
have mine shifting at 6900 and it has been up there probably 20 times in the last 3 weeks
and it was spun to 7000 on the dyno for tuning and this is with 273 gears so it was chillin up there for a while and its fine. They have had these cars over 7300 on stock bolts for testing dont know how often though.
have mine shifting at 6900 and it has been up there probably 20 times in the last 3 weeks
and it was spun to 7000 on the dyno for tuning and this is with 273 gears so it was chillin up there for a while and its fine. They have had these cars over 7300 on stock bolts for testing dont know how often though.
There have been a number of people over the years spinning stock bottom end cars(2000+) to 7-7.1k rpms for many many passes/miles.
Originally Posted by lilbuddy1587
Very correct sir
There have been a number of people over the years spinning stock bottom end cars(2000+) to 7-7.1k rpms for many many passes/miles.
There have been a number of people over the years spinning stock bottom end cars(2000+) to 7-7.1k rpms for many many passes/miles.
Launching!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 216
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From: Fallriver, MA
Originally Posted by lilbuddy1587
Very correct sir
There have been a number of people over the years spinning stock bottom end cars(2000+) to 7-7.1k rpms for many many passes/miles.
There have been a number of people over the years spinning stock bottom end cars(2000+) to 7-7.1k rpms for many many passes/miles.
STEVE
I have a 99 C5 and changed the rod bolts to the ARP Pro's. I didn't resize the rods, just did the reccomended torque procedure. What I did do was to 'break the motor in' again. My reasoning is that when the motor comes out of assembly, they haven't resized the rods. They bore them to the correct size for the bearing, put the bearing in and go. What they rely on is a proper 'break-in'. This gives the bearings time to develop a wear pattern consistent with the irregularities of the build. These engines are not blueprinted from the factory. Would the car benefit from blueprinting? I'm sure it would. I put 100 miles on the car at no more than 2000 rpm's. Then another 300 with no more than 3000. Then another 100 with no more than 4000. Then I changed the oil. I have about 4000 miles on the swap, many trips to 6800rpm's with no issues so far.
Originally Posted by GuitsBoy
Search isnt working so i cant link you, but there was a gentleman a few months ago who was a tool or fastener maker who was able to very accurately measure the bolts and the pressures. There have also been many posts on this before, but you are correct, ive never measured the difference myself, though i do have access to some very accurate inspection tools. If the situation arises, ill definately measure myself and post.
But these arent SBC rod bolts. Theyre essentially cap screws. I dont see them putting the same lateral stresses on the rod as the case in SBC stuff. In practice, many people have done a direct swap. Some have even measured since they had the rods out. As far as I can tell, nobody has ever reported an issue.
Yes, piston speed is more accurate. I had assumed a stock crank application otherwise rod bolts would be a moot point. But yes, ill agree with you here. I though you were talking about rod bolt stretch allowing the bearing to spin, or the rod to let go.
BTW, im not trying to start an argument. Just passing along info
But these arent SBC rod bolts. Theyre essentially cap screws. I dont see them putting the same lateral stresses on the rod as the case in SBC stuff. In practice, many people have done a direct swap. Some have even measured since they had the rods out. As far as I can tell, nobody has ever reported an issue.
Yes, piston speed is more accurate. I had assumed a stock crank application otherwise rod bolts would be a moot point. But yes, ill agree with you here. I though you were talking about rod bolt stretch allowing the bearing to spin, or the rod to let go.
BTW, im not trying to start an argument. Just passing along info
