Are ls1's tougher than the average bear?
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
From: Buffalo, N.Y.
All mass-produced engines/powertrains have their own particular weak points, and strengths:
LS1 engine/powertrain strengths:
extremely stout bottom end*
***-kicking factory heads
***-kicking intake
OEM full hydraulic roller cam set-up
very rigid
very light
responds very well to hi-performance builds
T-56
hydraulic clutch
coil-near-plug distributor-less ignition
LS1 engine/powertrain weaknesses:
rod bolts*
pushrods
valve springs
oiling
dinky, 10-bolt rear-end
heads have only 4 bolts per cylinder
If you're going to build a fire-breathing street monster, you're going to replace the weak parts with aftermarket stuff, anyway. Okay, you'll go with forged pistons & rods, aftermarket pushrods, and an oil pump when you do your heads/cam/intake build. No big deal. You still have a rock-solid bottom-end (crank and 6-bolt main), and an extremely light and rigid block. None of the engine's weak points really bother me that much. What DOES tick me off, is putting the POS 4L60e (in A4 applications), and the 10-bolt rear-end behind an engine capable of such high performance right off the showroom floor. GM was putting M21, M22, TH350, & TH400 trannys, and 12-bolt rear-ends in their '60's & '70's muscle cars. WTF, did they forget how to build muscle cars over the past 30 or so years? At least the new "family" of A6 transmissions will be up to the task...now how about a decent rear-end?
Not too long ago, a lot of people thought overhead cam engines were the wave of the future, and pushrod engines were on their way out. The LSx-series of cam-in-block engines has proven that assumption dead-wrong. Pushrod power forever!
LS1 engine/powertrain strengths:
extremely stout bottom end*
***-kicking factory heads
***-kicking intake
OEM full hydraulic roller cam set-up
very rigid
very light
responds very well to hi-performance builds
T-56
hydraulic clutch
coil-near-plug distributor-less ignition
LS1 engine/powertrain weaknesses:
rod bolts*
pushrods
valve springs
oiling
dinky, 10-bolt rear-end
heads have only 4 bolts per cylinder
If you're going to build a fire-breathing street monster, you're going to replace the weak parts with aftermarket stuff, anyway. Okay, you'll go with forged pistons & rods, aftermarket pushrods, and an oil pump when you do your heads/cam/intake build. No big deal. You still have a rock-solid bottom-end (crank and 6-bolt main), and an extremely light and rigid block. None of the engine's weak points really bother me that much. What DOES tick me off, is putting the POS 4L60e (in A4 applications), and the 10-bolt rear-end behind an engine capable of such high performance right off the showroom floor. GM was putting M21, M22, TH350, & TH400 trannys, and 12-bolt rear-ends in their '60's & '70's muscle cars. WTF, did they forget how to build muscle cars over the past 30 or so years? At least the new "family" of A6 transmissions will be up to the task...now how about a decent rear-end?
Not too long ago, a lot of people thought overhead cam engines were the wave of the future, and pushrod engines were on their way out. The LSx-series of cam-in-block engines has proven that assumption dead-wrong. Pushrod power forever!
Teching In
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
From: League City, TX
LOL, you won't win the argument on that site. I've been trying to convince Paul, Vital Velocity, to give up.
You can't beat the truth into some people. No matter how hard you try. I would be in there defending your point, but it just isn't gonna sink in.
-Russell
You can't beat the truth into some people. No matter how hard you try. I would be in there defending your point, but it just isn't gonna sink in.
-Russell
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Rule of thumb I've always heard from the Supercharger Vette guys is that the stock bottom end will hold 500 rwhp max. Anything more and you better have a fund set a side for a forged shortblock. This has been proven with many blown motors. This obviously doesn't include the old men that putt around town that have Superchargers for bragging rights. This is mainly the guys that are going wide open throttle any chance they can.
Originally Posted by RHall8612
LOL, you won't win the argument on that site. I've been trying to convince Paul, Vital Velocity, to give up.
You can't beat the truth into some people. No matter how hard you try. I would be in there defending your point, but it just isn't gonna sink in.
-Russell
You can't beat the truth into some people. No matter how hard you try. I would be in there defending your point, but it just isn't gonna sink in.
-Russell
This is paul ( vital velocity ) under my girlfriends account. I have my own account but i decided with how much i use her computer ill just use her account instead of logging in and logging out.
I am in the process of replacing my engine block due to ring blow-by. Overheated once up to PCM engine shut-off temperature & then the blow by showed up a few weeks later @ the dyno. Don't know how many pistons are leaking & don't care, the block is getting changed to an LS6.
There may have been damage to the engine prior to its' purchase, as it was bought used (35k miles) & had never been subjected to a blower or spray. One could argue all day about how the damage was created. Am simply contributing the experience to this thread. I love GM engines & am expecting great results from the "new" LS6 block. This time I'll know the block's History should an issue arise.
There may have been damage to the engine prior to its' purchase, as it was bought used (35k miles) & had never been subjected to a blower or spray. One could argue all day about how the damage was created. Am simply contributing the experience to this thread. I love GM engines & am expecting great results from the "new" LS6 block. This time I'll know the block's History should an issue arise.
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Originally Posted by kossuth
1. Don't over rev the motor stay around 6200 rpm's max on stock bolts. Going more is usually ok but I compare it to walking thin ice.
Originally Posted by stealth71
Is this really the limit? What about all of the people running the T-Rex and spinning way higher?
152,000 miles on the car, 130,000 of that being indiana state police usage. i know the officer who had my car, only problem it ever had was the rear end axels were out of round and they just replaced the rear end and thats all. ran a 13.2 @104 stock. drove it to florida and back (2500 mile round trip) without a single issue. imo the LS1 is the best NA motor ever made. id like to challange those guys for them to take one of their "stock bolt on" cars up against a cammed/blown otherwise stock LS1, expecialy in a FRC M6
here is the challange, drive from new york to california, go to 20 drag strips. one with the best average time wins. btw no "cool down period" you get straight off the interstate/traffic jammed streets and immediately run them, oh and you have to use the same tires the whole time
here is the challange, drive from new york to california, go to 20 drag strips. one with the best average time wins. btw no "cool down period" you get straight off the interstate/traffic jammed streets and immediately run them, oh and you have to use the same tires the whole time
Originally Posted by Denom
The 3000GT VR4's motor is a V6 turbo. I believe you are thinking of the 2JZGTE motor used in the Supra.
The Supra can handle over 900whp on the stock bottom end, which is still more then the LS1.
Man, I want a Poopra.
The Supra can handle over 900whp on the stock bottom end, which is still more then the LS1.
Man, I want a Poopra.
Nothing they all run 11s!
Originally Posted by BIG BAD BLACKSS
Whats the difference between a 500, 750 and 1000 RWHP supra?
Nothing they all run 11s!
Nothing they all run 11s!
This is the baddest street Supra out there. Nevermind the for sale crap, it's been for sale for 3 seasons.
As far as the LS1 vs other engines... the LS1 and its variations are in more vehicles than anything else on the road by far. I think having millions of cars in many different set-ups with perhaps billions of miles on the clock and only slight problems is a testament to the engine's reliability.
Pushed, it's still a bit weaker than the Cobra DOHC 4.6L (but not by much, considering the Ford motor is forged) and a lot weaker than the 2JZ-GTE of the Supra in theory. But, the 2JZ-GTE is not as common and most people don't push 25+ psi through them all the time. They are mostly dyno queens setup to make huge numbers on race gas. The average guy uses 93 and pushes 500-600rwhp on those big laggy single turbos, so that's not out of reach of the LS1.
Last edited by JakeFusion; May 5, 2006 at 09:58 PM.
When it comes down to it (if you are talking about peak HP numbers) there is not a replacement for displacement, plain and simple, a bigger motor will make more power and when that bigger motor is an all aluminum engine you don't have the weight issue that is normally there. Of course someone is going to say boost is the replacement for displacement.... well has anyone seen some the FI LS1 cars on this site??? they are f'in insane
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 309
Likes: 0
From: Evansville, IN
Originally Posted by Denom
The 3000GT VR4's motor is a V6 turbo. I believe you are thinking of the 2JZGTE motor used in the Supra.
The Supra can handle over 900whp on the stock bottom end, which is still more then the LS1.
Man, I want a Poopra.
The Supra can handle over 900whp on the stock bottom end, which is still more then the LS1.
Man, I want a Poopra.
Didn't Harlan run low 8s with the stock crank? He had to be making in excess of 1000rwhp. 
Originally Posted by Vette4LIFE
lmao, how about just bolt-ons with no nos, how do they generally hold up, and what does go on them when they do. 6g72's spin bearings all the time on basic performance upgrades.
