If TSP is saying there is an issue and is recalling these heads, and the only thing they are changing is the valve seals, porting, springs, valves, etc, what of those things would cause oil to get burned up?

It doesn't matter to me who is at fault, Dart, TSP, etc, I will test the compression, that will tell if the rings are seated, and if they aren't, then Combination will take care of me, I've already covered that base, and if the heads are at fault, then TSP will be the one to step up, and then they can send them to you guys at Dart for all I care, I just paid big money all over the place and want it to be correct.

I appreciate your reply and the info you give, we need the manufactures to tell us consumers the details, you make them, you know them

 

Wouldnt you be able to pull the intake and look into the intake port for signs of oil from the rocker bolt along the top of the port? Or for oil on the back of the intake valve? Thats the first thing id look at. I cant beleive people havnt been able to find out where the oil is even coming from?

 

CNC porting will cause heads to use oil if the port does not fit into the head properly. For instance if the port gets thin in the roof and cuts up into the edge of the spring pocket that will cause a thin area that can crack and use oil. Or the port can get too thin adjacent to the pushrod holes. Or if somebody machines the spring pocket too far out (for big springs) or too deep(to gain assembly height) it could get too thin and use oil. The dart head has an aftermarket type bronze guide in it with .500 od. The integral seal/shim will not work on the head the proper seal should be the Gm # 12533586 on intake and 12457652 on exhaust. If you install those seals that should eliminate any chance of oil going past the valve stem provided the guide is properly sized @.001-.0015 stem to guide clearance.

 

Very long shot but could the lave stem be machined a hair too thin? I very strongly doubt it, but everyone seems to be scratching their head so ill throw it out there. Or the guide bored/honed just a tad too much?

 

I talked to Jason today,and he said it's happening to the Dart heads right out of the box, and he had a pyle of them to prove it.I ordered a set of stage III Dart heads from TPS before this problem started and were ready to ship out but after this problem came to life he was afraid to send them to me because they might use oil, and he did not want that to happen to his customers, So i take him into sending them to me any way because there already done and paided for , no use to wast a set of heads if they don't leak oil or at least try them out.. Not EVER One of Dart heads are leaking so ill keep my finger crossed and hope these dont. Jason & Jon has help me tremeneously and i will do business with them again no mater what happens with the heads and so should you.

 

Wow seems like the story changes day to day on whats goin on. Wonder if there more then 1 problem going on?

 

Yeah it would be nice to know a for sure answer to what it is if anything that's causing the issues. I don't know if others that got them just don't report the issues or fix them on their own, etc, etc.

 

Having a pile of heads off engines that someone said was consuming oil, and being able to look at them and say why are two entirely different things. If I have a stack of AFR heads here and I tell you they are all used and the reason I have them is because they leak water would you just say, sure ok..

I dont think so. Having heads tested and checked we have found nothing, nothing in the guide fitment, which would have to be way loose to see the amount of oil guys are having issues with. Seals fitment is great, and the drainback, our head holds 1.3 oz's, the 243 casting holds 1.2 oz's not enough to make it halfway up the seal we use, much less over the seals.

Thanks Mike, I am glad to see a head person with some knowledge jump on here.

WE do get our seals from US Seal they do have the shim built in and they work fine.

Thanks

 

Then as the manufacture, why not ASK TSP for a few sets of the as cast Darts and the PRC ported Darts for evaluation that have a oil problem??? Then you can conclude what the deal is with the heads, if any, and we can all come to a conclusion and understanding. But as is sits, TSP says this, Dart says that, and in the end we the customer have them on our cars, worrying that they are bad, having to take time out of our schedule to diagnose a problem that we have no idea is, etc. See what I'm saying? If you had a set to diagnose, you can say, "look at this part, TSP changed this and if you have this, that's the issue, blah blah blah".

 

Dart has sold hundreds of these through Summit and Jegs the same ones they sell to anybody else, why havent they had any problems?? I am just curious, I dont think it has anything to do with TSP or Dart, I think that intake manifold leakage or incorrect PCV line attachment can be playing a role..

Just my $.02

 

I agree, i wanna see what is found inside that guys intake tonight.

 

Can you show us a diagram of the "correct" PCV line attachment then? How could the intake manifold leak? The head would have to be messed up correct? Putting a brand new FAST 90 with brand new intake gaskets on a brand new set of ported Dart 225's, how could the intake and gaskets leak unless the head was f'd?

 

I removed the PCV system completely...so lets play this game again. It is either the seals, guides or I didn't seal the rocker bolts good enough. I have had the rocker bolts off 3 times to re-seal them...none has worked. If it is me not sealing them, then there is something VERY wrong with the way they were tapped. I can't speak for the seals or the guides, but I have never seen a set of heads use oil like these do. Here is a pic of the intake valve AFTER REMOVING THE PCV SYSTEM ENTIRELY.



Ya'll take your time to figure this thing out. Since I did a few unplanned body modifications to my goat this weekend, I will be out of the game for a couple of weeks. Here is a pic of my modifications!



Galen

 

Galen was that head run with the PCV system working at any time? I noticed some oil along the floor of the port thats why im asking. Seems oils coming in along the bottom of the port somehow. Was your intake clean inside? Particularly the bttom of the inside? If teh intakes clean inside that looks like its sucking oil out of the valley between the head and intake somehow.

Also your PCV system is removed, but how is the crankcase being vented?



Sorry to see your new mods arent gonna help ya go any faster! At least you will get a new paint job with no stone chips up front now though!

 

Should I put mine on or send them back?

 

There is no way for the intake to pull oil from the valley, it is sealed on an LS1.

 

Well, I removed the intake and there is oil everywhere, in each intake runner and on top of every valve, there is oil, here's a load of pics, nice clear ones so you can see And a shot of my PCV valve and how it is run, I have the back side of the valve covers blocked off since it's an LS2, and it's a brand new PCV valve, 200 miles on it. I am going back to pull the rocker bolt and look for sealant, but **** man, that's a lot of oil if there isn't sealant.

Intake runner and valves













Bottom half of FAST 90mm intake









PCV Setup and valve





What do you think?

 

That looks like your pulling oil through the PCV, looks just like mine when i first did my LS1 swap. When i first did the swap i had a catch can on it, it filled all the way up and i started to smoke really bad, swaped to a ls6 valley and it went away.

Justin

 

I have the LS2 valley cover, same as the LS6 cover without the knock sensor hookups there.

 

Here's another shot I just took checking the sealant, which the rocker bolts have, and I can see some of it through the intake runner where the bolt is exposed, quite a bit I must say. Is that oil supposed to just sit there or go away, it only puddles in the back of that head area, and that's the plug I took a pic of that was covered in oil