TSP/PRC Stage II Darts. Smoking issue.
05-08-2006 | 06:05 PM
#62
Originally Posted by ThirdGenLS1
not saying your not getting oil through the head, but that still wouldnt explain the oil in the intake.
05-08-2006 | 06:30 PM
#65
Originally Posted by Jason 98 TA
We've had several sets of Darts smoking on us & honestly I don't know why they're doing it. We've talked with several guys from Dart, & some of the best engine builders in the country on this. The guide clearances appear to be fine, but some of the heads just flat smoke like crazy. We've stopped all sales of the Dart castings & are one by one replacing each smoking set with LS6 heads. We've researched the way the heads drain oil, checked guide clearances, & checked each runner for leaks. Currently we still don't know for sure what's causing these issues.
We work very hard to make cylinder heads that don't have issues. Our complete cnc porting process & cnc valve job system helps to insure that each set of our LS6 heads flow & perform exactly to specs. We had planned on finishing up a new cnc valve job configuration so we could cut valve jobs & cnc port the Dart heads, but honestly at this point I guess we're done with them.
The most frustrating part of this situation is some guys have no problems what so ever & some guys have crazy amounts of smoking. CNC porting can't really cause a cylinder head to consume oil, but somethings doing it so we're going to make sure & swap out the sets that have issues with our LS6 heads.
We're currently working on swapping over to the Edelbrock casting & have over 20 sets of them going together with both our current port & our new 200ish cc kick butt small runner head. This new small runner head should perform better than the competitions small runner head & offer features and options that you guys will love!
One thing I can promise you guys is we work very hard to make sure everything we produce is second to none! From the big flowing stock valve Street LS6 heads that sell for under 1k, to the new small runner 200ish cc heads, we'll continue to push to produce the best cylinder heads on the market!
We work very hard to make cylinder heads that don't have issues. Our complete cnc porting process & cnc valve job system helps to insure that each set of our LS6 heads flow & perform exactly to specs. We had planned on finishing up a new cnc valve job configuration so we could cut valve jobs & cnc port the Dart heads, but honestly at this point I guess we're done with them.
The most frustrating part of this situation is some guys have no problems what so ever & some guys have crazy amounts of smoking. CNC porting can't really cause a cylinder head to consume oil, but somethings doing it so we're going to make sure & swap out the sets that have issues with our LS6 heads.
We're currently working on swapping over to the Edelbrock casting & have over 20 sets of them going together with both our current port & our new 200ish cc kick butt small runner head. This new small runner head should perform better than the competitions small runner head & offer features and options that you guys will love!
One thing I can promise you guys is we work very hard to make sure everything we produce is second to none! From the big flowing stock valve Street LS6 heads that sell for under 1k, to the new small runner 200ish cc heads, we'll continue to push to produce the best cylinder heads on the market!
05-08-2006 | 07:01 PM
#67
Don't you think if I had figured out why they consume oil then I would fix them instead of eating sets of heads? I've even taken a set of known smoking heads to Sunset Racecraft, which is a LARGE retailer of Dart products, & they weren't sure what was causing these issues. The head we checked was .0017-.0018 in clearance. While they were more open then what I'd like to see, they were by no means causing issues like we're seeing.
Our valve seals also come from U.S. Seal, & we use your guides & valves that came with your heads. Several sets of the heads even shipped with Darts spring kits & seals still in place, yet they consume oil. I appreciate how quick you guys are to blame me, but how little you actually try to help the situation.
I wanted to be able to sell the ported Dart's, but I don't like having products returned for issues of ANY kind!!
I've run our LS6 program in the Dart castings also & they consume oil in the Dart casting & not in the LS6 casting.
I've taken 1 set of LS6 heads back EVER! Those heads were returned because UPS damaged them!
I'm taking back no less than 50% of the Ported Dart heads! We had a LOT of people waiting for us to port them & ship them, but I won't risk shipping a product that might not be 100%.
In the end, I think we've found a new plan. We will now be porting off of the Edelbrock casting. They've already gone out of their way to make sure anything we need is taken care of immediately. Thanks again to Dart for all of the help they didn't give me on the situation.
Our valve seals also come from U.S. Seal, & we use your guides & valves that came with your heads. Several sets of the heads even shipped with Darts spring kits & seals still in place, yet they consume oil. I appreciate how quick you guys are to blame me, but how little you actually try to help the situation.
I wanted to be able to sell the ported Dart's, but I don't like having products returned for issues of ANY kind!!
I've run our LS6 program in the Dart castings also & they consume oil in the Dart casting & not in the LS6 casting.
I've taken 1 set of LS6 heads back EVER! Those heads were returned because UPS damaged them!
I'm taking back no less than 50% of the Ported Dart heads! We had a LOT of people waiting for us to port them & ship them, but I won't risk shipping a product that might not be 100%.
In the end, I think we've found a new plan. We will now be porting off of the Edelbrock casting. They've already gone out of their way to make sure anything we need is taken care of immediately. Thanks again to Dart for all of the help they didn't give me on the situation.
__________________
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Last edited by Jason 98 TA; 05-09-2006 at 09:47 AM.
05-08-2006 | 07:01 PM
#68
Originally Posted by Randy WS6
I removed my pvc and was steal getting some oil in my intake and it was coming from the vent tub coming from the passenger valve cover to the TB.I removed it now no oil at all.
05-08-2006 | 07:04 PM
#69
I'm with you Jason, I posted a similiar reply to them already asking why they haven't just asked you for some problem heads to examine.
I just know something is up with mine and I need to get it resolved. If you want me to call you brotha just let me know as I would like to get this taken care of asap.
I just know something is up with mine and I need to get it resolved. If you want me to call you brotha just let me know as I would like to get this taken care of asap.
05-08-2006 | 07:14 PM
#70
Originally Posted by Jason 98 TA
Don't you think if I had figured out why they consume oil then I would fix them instead of eating sets of heads? I've even taken a set of known smoking heads to Sunset Racecraft, which is a LARGE retailer of Dart products, & they weren't sure what was causing these issues. The head we checked was .0017-.0018 in clearance. While they were more open then what I'd like to see, they were by no means causing issues like we're seeing.
Our valve seals also come from U.S. Seal, & we use your guides & valves that came with your heads. Several sets of the heads even shipped with Darts spring kits & seals still in place, yet they consume oil. I appreciate how quick you guys are to blame me, but how little you actually try to help the situation.
I wanted to be able to sell the ported Dart's, but I don't like having products returned for issues of ANY kind!!
The most I ever got from you guys was a picture of the head draining.
I never really understood why you guys didn't say,"Hey let me look at a set. We like you guys buying heads & want to make it right." Instead, I get,"It's not our fault. It's your porting causing it to smoke." I've run our LS6 program in the Dart castings also & they consume oil in the Dart casting & not in the LS6 casting.
I've taken 1 set of LS6 heads back EVER! Those heads were returned because UPS damaged them!
I'm taking back no less than 50% of the Ported Dart heads! We had a LOT of people waiting for us to port them & ship them, but I won't risk shipping a product that might not be 100%.
In the end, I think we've found a new plan. We will now be porting off of the Edelbrock casting. They've already gone out of their way to make sure anything we need is taken care of immediately. Thanks again to Dart for all of the help they didn't give me on the situation.
Our valve seals also come from U.S. Seal, & we use your guides & valves that came with your heads. Several sets of the heads even shipped with Darts spring kits & seals still in place, yet they consume oil. I appreciate how quick you guys are to blame me, but how little you actually try to help the situation.
I wanted to be able to sell the ported Dart's, but I don't like having products returned for issues of ANY kind!!
The most I ever got from you guys was a picture of the head draining.
I never really understood why you guys didn't say,"Hey let me look at a set. We like you guys buying heads & want to make it right." Instead, I get,"It's not our fault. It's your porting causing it to smoke." I've run our LS6 program in the Dart castings also & they consume oil in the Dart casting & not in the LS6 casting.
I've taken 1 set of LS6 heads back EVER! Those heads were returned because UPS damaged them!
I'm taking back no less than 50% of the Ported Dart heads! We had a LOT of people waiting for us to port them & ship them, but I won't risk shipping a product that might not be 100%.
In the end, I think we've found a new plan. We will now be porting off of the Edelbrock casting. They've already gone out of their way to make sure anything we need is taken care of immediately. Thanks again to Dart for all of the help they didn't give me on the situation.
05-08-2006 | 07:31 PM
#71
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,341
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Orange Peel
I will keep that in mind. The funny thing is this... If my PCV is pulling THAT much oil into the intake, you would think my PCV valves would be FILLED with oil, along with the hose connecting it to the valley cover and the TB hose to the valve cover right? Well all those hoses are dry, no oil built up in them, I can't even smack the hose on the ground and get any oil to come out. I'm at a loss right now
Remove and plug off both the fresh air line and the PCV from the throttle body. Then put a breather on the oil fill cap and make sure you have a line running from one valve cover to the other to equalize pressure.
Clean up the intake and everything else you can and put it back on. That'll give you a better idea.
05-08-2006 | 07:35 PM
#72
This car has a PCV issue. I have seen it a million times with the corvettes. Are you running the LS2 throttlebody? We had a few cars with the LS6 valley cover and no addtional lines and they burned oil like crazy. We added another(fresh air) line and it stopped all together
05-08-2006 | 07:38 PM
#73
Originally Posted by CHRISPY
Did you remove and plug off the fresh air line to the T-body?
Remove and plug off both the fresh air line and the PCV from the throttle body. Then put a breather on the oil fill cap and make sure you have a line running from one valve cover to the other to equalize pressure.
Clean up the intake and everything else you can and put it back on. That'll give you a better idea.
Remove and plug off both the fresh air line and the PCV from the throttle body. Then put a breather on the oil fill cap and make sure you have a line running from one valve cover to the other to equalize pressure.
Clean up the intake and everything else you can and put it back on. That'll give you a better idea.
What do I do about the valley cover hose/pipe thing? Just put a plug over it?
05-08-2006 | 07:44 PM
#76
Option 1:
Filters off the passegner side valve cover and valley cover
Option 2:
PVC from valley cover to intake
&&
Fresh air line from passenger side to catch can(optional) than to the intake tube infront of the TB.
Filters off the passegner side valve cover and valley cover
Option 2:
PVC from valley cover to intake
&&
Fresh air line from passenger side to catch can(optional) than to the intake tube infront of the TB.
05-08-2006 | 08:04 PM
#77
TECH Resident
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 855
Likes: 0
From: AUSTIN TX
In my experience, just because you have oil in the intake that does not mean you have a PCV problem; granted it can not be totally ruled out either, but the abscence of oil in the PCV system does tend to indicate that is not the problem. If you are getting that much oil into the intake port, then the intake reversion and pulses will distribute it through out the intake. The only way I could see the porting as causing the problem would be in the ways mentioned, where it was ported to large and into an area normally occupied with oil, or possibly even into the rocker bolt area where there is not enough threads left for them to seal even with sealant. However, I am sure that has been checked. It would be interesting to see one of these running with a clear valve cover or see through plate on the valve cover to see what is going on in there. The valve seal will only protect against spray, if for some reason oil is pooling up I could see where that would cause huge problems. The only way I could see that happening more with ported heads than others is if those opting for ported heads are also opting for larger volume oil pumps that are pushing more oil up top than stock.
05-08-2006 | 08:46 PM
#79
I'm running the Ported LS6 oil pump from TSP and see around 60-70 psi at idle in the morning on a cold start and around 40-50psi at idle fully warmed up, and 70+psi at WOT, so it's flowing PLENTY of oil 
I'm really leaning towards it NOT being the PCV system as I said, there's no oil in the hoses. On decel it could be pulling the oil on top of the valves area back into the intake and spreading it there.
I'm really leaning towards it NOT being the PCV system as I said, there's no oil in the hoses. On decel it could be pulling the oil on top of the valves area back into the intake and spreading it there.