DCR / ICL Clarification
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From: Long Island, NY
DCR / ICL Clarification Which number should I use for the intake closing point when calculating my DCR?
ICL @ .006
ICL @ .050 + 15
On my 232/234 112 +2, the cam card specs out ICL @ .006 as 70. The ICL @ .050 is 48. So do i run the calculator with 70 or 63 for my intake closing point?
ICL @ .006
ICL @ .050 + 15
On my 232/234 112 +2, the cam card specs out ICL @ .006 as 70. The ICL @ .050 is 48. So do i run the calculator with 70 or 63 for my intake closing point?
ICL is 110 because the LSA is 112 with 2 degrees of advance. The overlap at .006" is what you want to use to calculate DCR. It comes out to 59 degrees for a Comp XE-R on a 110 ICL at .006".
IVC (not ICL) would be 70 at .006" and 46 at .050". An IVC of 48 at .050" means no advance.
IVC (not ICL) would be 70 at .006" and 46 at .050". An IVC of 48 at .050" means no advance.
Thread Starter
TECH Senior Member
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From: Long Island, NY
Whoops, I meant IVC, not ICL. I was thinking intake closing, not centerline. Anyway, I read the IVC @ .050 was 46 for a +4, so wouldnt my +2 be 48?
So which way do I calculate DCR? Use 70 or 46 + 15?
So which way do I calculate DCR? Use 70 or 46 + 15?
Thread Starter
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Long Island, NY
Bore: 3.898
Piston releif: 1cc
out of hole: .007
gasket: .060 (i know, i know, I think im an idiot too)
gasket bore: 3.910
heads: 60cc
Ive been using this calculator: http://www.kb-silvolite.com/calc.php?action=comp
thanks Pred.
Piston releif: 1cc
out of hole: .007
gasket: .060 (i know, i know, I think im an idiot too)
gasket bore: 3.910
heads: 60cc
Ive been using this calculator: http://www.kb-silvolite.com/calc.php?action=comp
thanks Pred.
Thread Starter
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,249
Likes: 3
From: Long Island, NY
Yeah, thats about what I got. Just wanted to make sure I was doing it correctly. Not that I have a choice in the matter 2 months after putting the motor back togather. Thanks!
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TECH Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,620
Likes: 17
From: BFE
I'm buiding a 370 cid with the same cam on a 113+0 lsa 8.7 DCR, 11.77 SCR.
Think i'll finally see some trq out of that bastard
Torquer cam my ***
I have no idea why they recommend that cam for stock block without telling them that to be a Torquer they need 11.5+ SCR 
On stock heads that poor bastard is a lemon.
Think i'll finally see some trq out of that bastard
Torquer cam my ***
I have no idea why they recommend that cam for stock block without telling them that to be a Torquer they need 11.5+ SCR On stock heads that poor bastard is a lemon.
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On The Tree
Joined: Aug 2005
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Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
I'm buiding a 370 cid with the same cam on a 113+0 lsa 8.7 DCR, 11.77 SCR.
Think i'll finally see some trq out of that bastard
Torquer cam my *** I have no idea why they recommend that cam for stock block without telling them that to be a Torquer they need 11.5+ SCR
On stock heads that poor bastard is a lemon.
Think i'll finally see some trq out of that bastard
Torquer cam my ***
I have no idea why they recommend that cam for stock block without telling them that to be a Torquer they need 11.5+ SCR On stock heads that poor bastard is a lemon.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,620
Likes: 17
From: BFE
Originally Posted by ls1greyhound
Were you that unhappy with the torquers performance on stock heads? I've been thinking about that cam for my 02 m6 (stock heads), so let me know your opinion.
Basically you'll see top rpm increase but a decrease in HP and trq below the curve, which is the most important area on the street.
The DCR of a Tqr V2 at 112+4 LSA is less than 8.0 which results in shitty low-midrange trq.
So there is 2 ways around that to maximise such durations.
1- Raise SCR and DCR
2- Change the LSA to super tight to raise DCR and increase low end output. (at those durations, the cam will probably not fit due to PTV issues because of its VEs)
Simply as this has been stated many times but often ignored, a smaller cam with good DCR and VE's will perform better all around in a stock block, instead of just being a high rpm screamer and a dog at low-midrange.
This opens the can of worms that most folks do not grasp, YES the bigger cam will make more power, but is that power in the range that the car is used for? usualy not!!
For example The 232/234 should be making in the 470>480 rwhp maximum output in a properly matched combo. In cam only it will only make in the 400>410 rwhp on M6 and only with 370>380 rwtrq.
you could make that power with a 220/224/226 range cam and more trq with proper VE's on the right lobes.
I hope i didn't loose you
Last edited by PREDATOR-Z; May 25, 2006 at 08:27 AM.
On The Tree
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Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
What most sponsors fail to tell you in order to satisfy consumer hunger for more horsepower is that; bigger cams with higher durations need higher compression than stock to raise the DCR in order to maximise the power output of that cam.
Basically you'll see top rpm increase but a decrease in HP and trq below the curve, which is the most important area on the street.
The DCR of a Tqr V2 at 112+4 LSA is less than 8.0 which results in shitty low-midrange trq.
So there is 2 ways around that to maximise such durations.
1- Raise SCR and DCR
2- Change the LSA to super tight to raise DCR and increase low end output. (at those durations, the cam will probably not fit due to PTV issues because of its VEs)
Simply as this has been stated many times but often ignored, a smaller cam with good DCR and VE's will perform better all around in a stock block, instead of just being a high rpm screamer and a dog at low-midrange.
This opens the can of worms that most folks do not grasp, YES the bigger cam will make more power, but is that power in the range that the car is used for? usualy not!!
For example The 232/234 should be making in the 470>480 rwhp maximum output in a properly matched combo. In cam only it will only make in the 400>410 rwhp on M6 and only with 370>380 rwtrq.
you could make that power with a 220/224/226 range cam and more trq with proper VE's on the right lobes.
I hope i didn't loose you
Basically you'll see top rpm increase but a decrease in HP and trq below the curve, which is the most important area on the street.
The DCR of a Tqr V2 at 112+4 LSA is less than 8.0 which results in shitty low-midrange trq.
So there is 2 ways around that to maximise such durations.
1- Raise SCR and DCR
2- Change the LSA to super tight to raise DCR and increase low end output. (at those durations, the cam will probably not fit due to PTV issues because of its VEs)
Simply as this has been stated many times but often ignored, a smaller cam with good DCR and VE's will perform better all around in a stock block, instead of just being a high rpm screamer and a dog at low-midrange.
This opens the can of worms that most folks do not grasp, YES the bigger cam will make more power, but is that power in the range that the car is used for? usualy not!!
For example The 232/234 should be making in the 470>480 rwhp maximum output in a properly matched combo. In cam only it will only make in the 400>410 rwhp on M6 and only with 370>380 rwtrq.
you could make that power with a 220/224/226 range cam and more trq with proper VE's on the right lobes.
I hope i didn't loose you
I had my heart set on an F13 until the bad batch came out. Now I’m not sure I want to buy an fms cam until the new core material proves to have resolved the issue. The torquer has comparable specs, so I’ve been researching it.
My goal is to have a car that is livable on the street but produces high trap speeds at the track. I currently trap 112mph with bolt ons and some weight reduction. I’m looking to hit at least 117mph cam only. This it not a daily driver but I still would like it to remain enjoyable on the street.
All the dyno graphs I’ve come across show the torquer making 300tq by 3000rpm. I know a stock cam has better low end torque but I still wouldn’t think the torquer would feel “sluggish at low rpm”.
Does anyone have a torquer graph that starts at 2000rpm?
Well my car with the F13, DCR of ~8.05 SCR of ~10.25:1 makes 40-50 more hp and tq down low than some of those "other" cams, I wouldnt hesitate to buy another FMS cam.
I am going to yank the heads and mill them to get a DCR in the 8.7 range which will put the SCR around 11.40:1, I am very interested to see how this works out to make the bottom end stronger as well at the top....
I am going to yank the heads and mill them to get a DCR in the 8.7 range which will put the SCR around 11.40:1, I am very interested to see how this works out to make the bottom end stronger as well at the top....
