AFR H/C recipe Questions/Alterations.
06-03-2006, 03:59 PM
#21
TECH Senior Member
Originally Posted by allngn_c5
I did get them milled to 59 cc I thought he meant how much was milled to arrive at 59 cc (.040, .030 etc)
06-03-2006, 06:21 PM
#22
Thanks for all the assistance! But I'm still on the fence 
Part of me wants to stick exactly to the recipe and hope that the Morel lifters keep it completely safe. Another part of me wants to get a little more PV clearance. (This is an M6 and someday I'll miss a gear or shift too late!)
I thought about using the 0.054" gasket instead of the 0.040" but by my calculations that would increase the combustion chamber size by 2.745cc. (Not to mention that it would also loosen up the quench space.) Or I could mill less but that would also sacrifice some performance. Maybe I'm just too greedy lol.
What to do???
How long is the wait to get a hold of the tool to cut reliefs in the pistons?
Part of me wants to stick exactly to the recipe and hope that the Morel lifters keep it completely safe. Another part of me wants to get a little more PV clearance. (This is an M6 and someday I'll miss a gear or shift too late!)
I thought about using the 0.054" gasket instead of the 0.040" but by my calculations that would increase the combustion chamber size by 2.745cc. (Not to mention that it would also loosen up the quench space.) Or I could mill less but that would also sacrifice some performance. Maybe I'm just too greedy lol.
What to do???
How long is the wait to get a hold of the tool to cut reliefs in the pistons?
Last edited by ShevrolayZ28; 06-03-2006 at 06:30 PM.
06-03-2006, 06:54 PM
#25
Can't say it enough...tighter quench is your friend.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
06-04-2006, 10:58 AM
#28
Originally Posted by ShevrolayZ28
BTW, Patrick, are you runing stock pistons?
A comment from Tony back on 2/10/2006...11:07am
Originally Posted by Tony Mamo @ AFR
Not much more than a 228 lobe if you want any type of safety net....Even that is getting tight and dont forget to inquire about LSA info as well....A 112 cam with the same lobes will have less P to V than the same lobes on a 114 LSA.
Look foward to some additional input from peope that have pushed the envelope here, but based on the clearances I saw with my 346 build, I wouldn't bo looking at anything larger than a 228 with a 114 LSA. I had the textbook .080/.100 minimum with the 224 grind installed at a 113 ICL (114 + 1) and I noticed some signs of valves occasionally making contact with a piston when that engine came apart (7K shifts and hard driving). Not the type of contact I was extremely concerned with, but contact none the less.
Tony M.
Note: We are discussing a head that was milled .030 and I am also assuming a thinner .040 Cometic here. An unmilled head can tolerate more cam, but in my opinion, what you get in power from the slightly larger cam you lose about the same due to the drop in compression and looser quench (which leaves you with an engine that makes the same peak power with the bigger cam, lower CR version but alot less torque and area under the curve as the higher CR, smaller cammed version).
Look foward to some additional input from peope that have pushed the envelope here, but based on the clearances I saw with my 346 build, I wouldn't bo looking at anything larger than a 228 with a 114 LSA. I had the textbook .080/.100 minimum with the 224 grind installed at a 113 ICL (114 + 1) and I noticed some signs of valves occasionally making contact with a piston when that engine came apart (7K shifts and hard driving). Not the type of contact I was extremely concerned with, but contact none the less.
Tony M.
Note: We are discussing a head that was milled .030 and I am also assuming a thinner .040 Cometic here. An unmilled head can tolerate more cam, but in my opinion, what you get in power from the slightly larger cam you lose about the same due to the drop in compression and looser quench (which leaves you with an engine that makes the same peak power with the bigger cam, lower CR version but alot less torque and area under the curve as the higher CR, smaller cammed version).
I think I'm going to copy the recipe - verbatim. Hopefully easier driving and the Morel lifters I plan to use will allow me to avoid any and all PV contact.
06-04-2006, 01:22 PM
#29
Originally Posted by ShevrolayZ28
...I doubt I'll drive my car as hard as Tony drives his. Plus he said he wasn't extremely concerned with the type of contact he saw evidence of.
I think I'm going to copy the recipe - verbatim. Hopefully easier driving and the Morel lifters I plan to use will allow me to avoid any and all PV contact.
I think I'm going to copy the recipe - verbatim. Hopefully easier driving and the Morel lifters I plan to use will allow me to avoid any and all PV contact.
. Maybe the thicker head gasket is enough for piece of mind. Last edited by ShevrolayZ28; 06-04-2006 at 02:19 PM.
06-04-2006, 02:12 PM
#31
Keep in mind, the "recipe" gives you textbook valve clearance on intake and exhaust. This clearance is much more generous than many cam-only setups (like the MS3 and T-Rex). Although Tony's setup might have shown signs of minor P to V contact, it wasn't enough to reduce cranking compression or adversely affect leak down numbers that were performed right before engine tear-down. I'd follow the recipe to the letter if you want solid results. Nobody who's followed it to the letter has made anthing less than excellent power at all rpm. Don't second guess yourself. Don't go with the thicker gasket either. You'll just be giving up valuable knock-resistance and torque.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
06-04-2006, 02:48 PM
#33
Originally Posted by Patrick G
Keep in mind, the "recipe" gives you textbook valve clearance on intake and exhaust. This clearance is much more generous than many cam-only setups (like the MS3 and T-Rex). Although Tony's setup might have shown signs of minor P to V contact, it wasn't enough to reduce cranking compression or adversely affect leak down numbers that were performed right before engine tear-down. I'd follow the recipe to the letter if you want solid results. Nobody who's followed it to the letter has made anthing less than excellent power at all rpm. Don't second guess yourself. Don't go with the thicker gasket either. You'll just be giving up valuable knock-resistance and torque.
.)Good God! I'm like a kid in a candy store that's only allowed to pick one candy!
06-10-2006, 12:10 PM
#38
Originally Posted by Z06 Steve
I have AFR's 62cc milled .024 with a cometic 40 and the mamo cam.... whats my comp ratio??
Pretty high! Does your car ping at all? Your timing? Octane?
from this calc:
http://www.alantripp.com/VE%20Calcul...y%20Lookup.xls
06-10-2006, 12:54 PM
#39
TECH Senior Member
Originally Posted by ShevrolayZ28
Steve, assuming stock pistons, and that each 0.006" of milling reduces chamber volume by 1cc, your SCR is around 11.55:1. And with the Mamo cam your DCR is around 8.82:1
Pretty high! Does your car ping at all? Your timing? Octane?
from this calc:
http://www.alantripp.com/VE%20Calcul...y%20Lookup.xls
Pretty high! Does your car ping at all? Your timing? Octane?
from this calc:
http://www.alantripp.com/VE%20Calcul...y%20Lookup.xls