cam decisions.... big low end, big high end possible?

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Jan 21, 2003 | 08:52 PM

JeepBuilderJohn

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From: annapolis md

cam decisions.... big low end, big high end possible?

Hi guys....
let me start out by saying that ive done a huge amount of reading/searching on the cam subject in the archives, and ive basically gained an elementary grasp on what does what, when it comes to cams. thanks for so much useful reading, its been a big help!
i would definitely appreciate some advice from the big boys on this though, so here goes....

i want to cam an LS1 from a C5 vette....its in a jeep, but thats irrelevant.

this is what i want from the cam...
rock solid idle...i dont mind if it soudns cammed, infact i rather enjoy how cammed ls1s sound, but i dont want surging or stalling at all.
from what ive read/gathered so far i dont want anything tighter than a 114 LSA.
id like the cam to make very good torque down low, but not at the expense of being a dog up high. i spend alot of time in low range, for those of you familiar with 4x4s, so i need good torque down low, but not a ridiculous level. anything that makes decent tq down low will move the thing fine in lowrange, i just dont want it to be a dog down there, requiring me to spin to 4k just to bump over something.
being emmisions complaint would be nice, but honestly, i dont wanna put something in there that just isnt worht my time or money...if it comes down to it, id be willing to swap the stocker back in for emmisions. so id liek to go as agressive as possible, keeping my main objectives (idle/TQ).
so with that in mind....here are a couple cams ive been considering...
TR 224/224 114
TR 220/220 114
im open to any other suggestions as well...those both seem to have good stable low end, and shine pretty well up high. decent power up high is important, for full throttle assaults, and tooling around town and the like.
im a tad fuzzy on the reverse split thing, but i understand it works well on FI/N2O apps, i wonder if any of the rev. cams would work well for my app.

one more thing... im goign to be running a NX wet 100 shot through this from time to time, if that needs to be taken into consideration...
so what do you guys think?
thanks!
~JOhn

Jan 21, 2003 | 09:41 PM

John B

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Re: cam decisions.... big low end, big high end possible?

For your application I would stay away from a cam with 224° of duration just because it would probably be a little more soggy off idle than a 220° or 221° cam. Personally I would recommend the B1 cam, not because I have it, because for you it's perfect.....emissions compliance (with CATs), rock solid idle, good all around power (mine made 391 RWHP w/stock heads!) and roasts the tires at any speed below 40 MPH with stock heads. I think it's perfect for you.

Jan 21, 2003 | 09:55 PM

JeepBuilderJohn

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From: annapolis md

Re: cam decisions.... big low end, big high end possible?

wow...thats both quick and convincing...

what are the specs on the B1, and who makes it?
and whats the sound like?
im goign to be running grotts, RT cats, qtec y pipe modded to fit my app, and magnaflow muffler.
thanks
~JOhn

edit...i found it, MTI, but specs, anyone?

Jan 21, 2003 | 10:09 PM

XLR8NSS

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Re: cam decisions.... big low end, big high end possible?

If I remember correctly <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

.558/.558 221/221 114

John

Jan 22, 2003 | 06:51 AM

1CAMWNDR

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Re: cam decisions.... big low end, big high end possible?

I agree that the B1 would be perfect for you. Also, if you are going to use N2O, you do not want a REVERSE split cam. You will want a conventional split cam: more exhaust duration to get all of that extra air/fuel out of the cylinder. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

Jan 22, 2003 | 01:13 PM

Pro Stock John

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Re: cam decisions.... big low end, big high end possible?

B1'ish, or C2ish, 222/114 works good.

I had a 222/224//113/+2 cam that did 375rwhp/410tq and car went 11.75@114mph back three years ago.

I think a 221/221//114 or a 222/222/114 would work pretty good. Moderate lope, almost no lope if the idle is around 950 with an automatic.

Jan 22, 2003 | 01:16 PM

JeepBuilderJohn

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From: annapolis md

Re: cam decisions.... big low end, big high end possible?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Pro Stock John:
 B1'ish, or C2ish, 222/114 works good.

I had a 222/224//113/+2 cam that did 375rwhp/410tq and car went 11.75@114mph back three years ago.

I think a 221/221//114 or a 222/222/114 would work pretty good. Moderate lope, almost no lope if the idle is around 950 with an automatic. <hr /></blockquote>you think if i drop the idle to like 750 on th efly, it would sound cammed? just curious, i think the bigger cams sound badass, just cant trade that for stable idle.
~John

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Jan 22, 2003 | 01:45 PM

Pro Stock John

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Re: cam decisions.... big low end, big high end possible?

Sure a 222/114 will have a bit of a lope at 750 but it will be pretty mild.

Jan 22, 2003 | 02:16 PM

JeepBuilderJohn

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From: annapolis md

Re: cam decisions.... big low end, big high end possible?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Pro Stock John:
 Sure a 222/114 will have a bit of a lope at 750 but it will be pretty mild. <hr /></blockquote>cool....just for my own personal amusment, not really advertising for races...cause ill probably loose (except to rice burners) hehe

Jan 22, 2003 | 05:12 PM

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1CAMWNDR

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Re: cam decisions.... big low end, big high end possible?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JeepBuilderJohn:
 i thought a reverse split cam meant there was more exhaust duration?
like 224/227. can you set me straight on that?
~John <hr /></blockquote>You have it exactly backwards <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
A conventional split cam is more duration and lift on the exhuast side (Very common on GEN I and II small blocks) like a 220°/230°.
A reverse split is more on the intake side (More commmon on turbo motors and the GEN III N/A,) like a 228°/224°. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

Jan 22, 2003 | 06:51 PM

#11

JeepBuilderJohn

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From: annapolis md

Re: cam decisions.... big low end, big high end possible?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by 1CAMWNDR:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JeepBuilderJohn:
 i thought a reverse split cam meant there was more exhaust duration?
like 224/227. can you set me straight on that?
~John <hr /></blockquote>You have it exactly backwards <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
A conventional split cam is more duration and lift on the exhuast side (Very common on GEN I and II small blocks) like a 220°/230°.
A reverse split is more on the intake side (More commmon on turbo motors and the GEN III N/A,) like a 228°/224°. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>right on....so am i correct that N/A guys favor the reverse split in order to crutch the LSX intake?

and then "standard" split will work better on N2O/blower since it allows more exhaust to clear whats forced in...or am i backwards there too?

one more thing...whats the correct terminology for say 224/224? even split?
you guys have helped alot, thanks!
~John

Jan 22, 2003 | 08:30 PM

#12

Dope

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Re: cam decisions.... big low end, big high end possible?

The correct term is a 'single pattern' cam. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Dope

Jan 22, 2003 | 10:11 PM

#13

Zeta

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From: olathe, ks

Re: cam decisions.... big low end, big high end possible?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by XLR8NSS:
 If I remember correctly <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

.558/.558 221/221 114

John <hr /></blockquote>How doe the B1 differ from the Lunati [93-LS1-1] lobes? The specs are identical.

Thanks

Jan 22, 2003 | 11:44 PM

#14

JeepBuilderJohn

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From: annapolis md

Re: cam decisions.... big low end, big high end possible?

i read (someone correct me if im wrong) that its originally a lunati grind, and MTI started to make em as well.
~John

Jan 23, 2003 | 12:15 AM

#15

John B

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Re: cam decisions.... big low end, big high end possible?

No need to turn the idle down....here's a link to mine at a cold idle ~1000RPM http://www.montecarloss.com/ls1monte...s/ColdIdle.wav

Jan 23, 2003 | 12:28 AM

#16

Jason99T/A

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Re: cam decisions.... big low end, big high end possible?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JeepBuilderJohn:
 i read (someone correct me if im wrong) that its originally a lunati grind, and MTI started to make em as well.
~John <hr /></blockquote>If you order a T1/B1 from MTI now, they are ground by Comp. A few years back, Lunati was grinding them for MTI. However, delivery time and quality control was a problem, so MTI is using Comp now. The Comp grinds are "slightly" more aggressive.

I used to run the Luanti/B1 and it was an excellent cam.

Jan 23, 2003 | 12:46 AM

#17

JeepBuilderJohn

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From: annapolis md

Re: cam decisions.... big low end, big high end possible?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by 1CAMWNDR:
 I agree that the B1 would be perfect for you. Also, if you are going to use N2O, you do not want a REVERSE split cam. You will want a conventional split cam: more exhaust duration to get all of that extra air/fuel out of the cylinder. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>i thought a reverse split cam meant there was more exhaust duration?
like 224/227. can you set me straight on that?
~John

Jan 23, 2003 | 12:58 AM

#18

JayLS1-327

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Re: cam decisions.... big low end, big high end possible?

John, MTI makes the B1.

Try: http://www.motorsporttech.com/2002_w.../FBengine.html

Good luck with your project sound interesting, and LS1 in a Jeep.

Jan 23, 2003 | 01:17 AM

#19

annil8r

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Re: cam decisions.... big low end, big high end possible?

If u plan on using stock heads use a cam with a low lift stock heads stall between 465 and 485 lift. So my suggestion is a conventional split pattern cam. Call a sponser and get a custom grind like 218/224 @.050 515/525 113lsa 110 intake center line. This will work good with stock heads and will give u a *** load of low end torque plus it is no slouch on the top end and with 110 octane it will pass emissions.

Jan 23, 2003 | 10:17 AM

#20

niphilli

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From: Raleigh, NC

Re: cam decisions.... big low end, big high end possible?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by annil8r:
 If u plan on using stock heads use a cam with a low lift stock heads stall between 465 and 485 lift. So my suggestion is a conventional split pattern cam. Call a sponser and get a custom grind like 218/224 @.050 515/525 113lsa 110 intake center line. This will work good with stock heads and will give u a *** load of low end torque plus it is no slouch on the top end and with 110 octane it will pass emissions. <hr /></blockquote>Hey man, just noticed you are local. Drop me an e-mail sometime (niphilli@vt.edu). we have get-togethers from time to time.

Sounds like you are an advocate for something like the Hotcam (218/227 .525 .525 on 112).

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