LS6 Budget Head Comparison
10-04-2006, 11:01 AM
#21
Originally Posted by N4cer
You should add Livernois in there.
Originally Posted by No Juice
Livernois Motorsports
Stage 1
New 243 Casting - CNC Ported - 2.00/1.55 Stock Valves - Livernois 0.580" Valve Springs - Assembled - Milled to your spec
What do these have for retainers? Locks? Seals? Machined spring base?
$949
Bare Ported = $830
Comp 918 Valve Springs = $1049
Stage 2
New 243 Casting - CNC Ported - 2.02/1.55 Valves - Livernois 0.580" Valve Springs - Assembled - Milled to your spec
What do these have for retainers? Locks? Seals? Machined spring base?
$1199
Comp 918 Valve Springs = $1249
Manley Dual Springs and Ti Retainers = $1499
Advertised Flow #'s (Stg 1 Int)(Stg 2 Int) / (Exhaust)
0.100 66 73 / 55
0.200 140 146 / 120
0.300 200 200 / 158
0.400 246 254 / 204
0.500 285 290 / 222
0.600 303 305 / 234
0.650 305 310 / 237
Intake Runner Volume = 220cc / Exhaust Runner Volume = ??
Note: This was confirmed from Rick @ Livernois
Stage 1
New 243 Casting - CNC Ported - 2.00/1.55 Stock Valves - Livernois 0.580" Valve Springs - Assembled - Milled to your spec
What do these have for retainers? Locks? Seals? Machined spring base?
$949
Bare Ported = $830
Comp 918 Valve Springs = $1049
Stage 2
New 243 Casting - CNC Ported - 2.02/1.55 Valves - Livernois 0.580" Valve Springs - Assembled - Milled to your spec
What do these have for retainers? Locks? Seals? Machined spring base?
$1199
Comp 918 Valve Springs = $1249
Manley Dual Springs and Ti Retainers = $1499
Advertised Flow #'s (Stg 1 Int)(Stg 2 Int) / (Exhaust)
0.100 66 73 / 55
0.200 140 146 / 120
0.300 200 200 / 158
0.400 246 254 / 204
0.500 285 290 / 222
0.600 303 305 / 234
0.650 305 310 / 237
Intake Runner Volume = 220cc / Exhaust Runner Volume = ??
Note: This was confirmed from Rick @ Livernois
10-04-2006, 11:15 AM
#22
Originally Posted by Brian Tooley
You should throw a quality perception into the mix, as I just saw one of these heads brand new with metal shavings falling out of the water jackets and the pushrod pinch was ported so thin it was about to break through.
I bet if someone started checking on some of the smoking problems of one of the above heads they would find they have holes into the crankcase from the intake port at the pushrod area.
How much more money is a head worth if you don't have to pull it off and replace it? Seems to me a few hundred more dollars for quality would be the right call for anyone.
I bet if someone started checking on some of the smoking problems of one of the above heads they would find they have holes into the crankcase from the intake port at the pushrod area.
How much more money is a head worth if you don't have to pull it off and replace it? Seems to me a few hundred more dollars for quality would be the right call for anyone.
TSP offered to swap me over to some LS6 heads and give me "free" gaskets and bolts. They did not offer me any money off the price of the LS6 head for the pain in the **** that heads I bought from them cost. After I thought about it, I decided to me it was worth paying an extra $150 in parts and supplies to get my heads from a company I trusted. I learned my lesson the hard way!
Galen
10-04-2006, 11:34 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by No Juice
Now here are some flow sheet numbers (shipped with heads) that members on here have posted
Patriot Performance (intake) (exhaust)
0.100 79.3 61.9
0.200 155.7 120.6
0.300 218.7 165.1
0.400 256.3 199.7
0.500 284.5 216.8
0.600 300.0 225.6
Here are some independent Dart flow numbers
Independent Dart 205 Flow #'s (intake) (exhaust)
0.100 65.7
0.200 132.9
0.300 194.7
0.400 247.7
0.500 281.1 208
0.600 295.4 222.7
Independent Dart 205 Flow #'s (intake)
0.100 69.6
0.200 127.1
0.300 181.7
0.400 231.5
0.500 265.5
0.600 279.4
Independent Dart 225 Flow #'s (intake) (exhaust)
0.100 ???
0.200 140 98
0.300 203 136
0.400 252 165
0.500 285 181
0.600 285 190
Independent Dart 225 Flow #'s (intake) (exhaust)
0.100 65.7 60.4
0.200 128.8 104.0
0.300 185.9 143.7
0.400 237.5 180.9
0.500 274.5 195.3
0.600 294.1 204.1
It seems that the Darts don't flow quite as well as advertised
Patriot Performance (intake) (exhaust)
0.100 79.3 61.9
0.200 155.7 120.6
0.300 218.7 165.1
0.400 256.3 199.7
0.500 284.5 216.8
0.600 300.0 225.6
Here are some independent Dart flow numbers
Independent Dart 205 Flow #'s (intake) (exhaust)
0.100 65.7
0.200 132.9
0.300 194.7
0.400 247.7
0.500 281.1 208
0.600 295.4 222.7
Independent Dart 205 Flow #'s (intake)
0.100 69.6
0.200 127.1
0.300 181.7
0.400 231.5
0.500 265.5
0.600 279.4
Independent Dart 225 Flow #'s (intake) (exhaust)
0.100 ???
0.200 140 98
0.300 203 136
0.400 252 165
0.500 285 181
0.600 285 190
Independent Dart 225 Flow #'s (intake) (exhaust)
0.100 65.7 60.4
0.200 128.8 104.0
0.300 185.9 143.7
0.400 237.5 180.9
0.500 274.5 195.3
0.600 294.1 204.1
It seems that the Darts don't flow quite as well as advertised
Ben T.
10-05-2006, 11:55 AM
#28
Originally Posted by N4cer
Yes, but the curve! The PP's have a HUGE runner that won't perform as well across the board compared to a smaller runner at similar flows.
Actually we have one of the smallest runners available on an oem ported 243, 035, or 317 casting. Our runner volume is 227 +/- while others are 230 and larger. On average the oem runner size is 212-214.
10-05-2006, 12:33 PM
#30
Originally Posted by fotoboy
I have good mid range tq due to the cam I put in 228 232 589 595 112 lsa, not a very big cam but set up good, for my needs
10-05-2006, 04:03 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by Galen
This is a very true statement! My PRC ported Darts leaked oil into the intake ports like it was going out of style. Instead of sending them back to TSP, I decided to ship mine back to Dart and they cleaned up a set of their heads and sent them to me as part of the deal. The only thing Dart found wrong with the TSP heads (aside from they didn't particularly like the porting performed) was that the valve seals were completely trashed. Dart kept the PRC ported heads and plans to slap them on an engine to see how they perform at a later date.
TSP offered to swap me over to some LS6 heads and give me "free" gaskets and bolts. They did not offer me any money off the price of the LS6 head for the pain in the **** that heads I bought from them cost. After I thought about it, I decided to me it was worth paying an extra $150 in parts and supplies to get my heads from a company I trusted. I learned my lesson the hard way!
Galen
TSP offered to swap me over to some LS6 heads and give me "free" gaskets and bolts. They did not offer me any money off the price of the LS6 head for the pain in the **** that heads I bought from them cost. After I thought about it, I decided to me it was worth paying an extra $150 in parts and supplies to get my heads from a company I trusted. I learned my lesson the hard way!
Galen
10-05-2006, 06:16 PM
#33
Honestly, I'm sick & tired of reading your inaccurate posts about those cylinder heads. It may be possible that your ported Darts had valve seal issues, but that is by no means the reason for all of these cylinder heads smoking & causing oil consumption. I don't care what anyone told you from Dart. I can give you phone numbers to several people that replaced the GUIDES on the CNC ported Darts & went on to have great luck & great results with them.
We've even recently had a nice gentlemen from Dart come to Lubbock to visit us on resolving the issues with porting the Dart castings in an effort to start offering this product again. During that meeting they provided me part numbers for valve seals that were the EXACT SAME VALVE SEAL that were installed on every set of those cylinder heads. Explain to me how the valve seal can be the issue when the part number they requested was the same seal I ran? Furthermore, how can you explain the heads that smoked while still running Dart's factory spring seat & seal setup?
I'm sorry the cylinder heads didn't work out the way they were supposed to. As a result of those issues with Dart heads, we no longer offer them. We constantly build LS6, 5.3l, LS1, and Edelbrock castings all without any oil consumption issues of any kind. Bringing up posts from 6 months ago still doesn't change the fact that all of these issues were resolved the day I stopped offering the Dart castings. We lost a lot of money in an effort to make it right for the customers that had problems. I'm not sure how we can't be trusted when we tried to make it right.
We've even recently had a nice gentlemen from Dart come to Lubbock to visit us on resolving the issues with porting the Dart castings in an effort to start offering this product again. During that meeting they provided me part numbers for valve seals that were the EXACT SAME VALVE SEAL that were installed on every set of those cylinder heads. Explain to me how the valve seal can be the issue when the part number they requested was the same seal I ran? Furthermore, how can you explain the heads that smoked while still running Dart's factory spring seat & seal setup?
I'm sorry the cylinder heads didn't work out the way they were supposed to. As a result of those issues with Dart heads, we no longer offer them. We constantly build LS6, 5.3l, LS1, and Edelbrock castings all without any oil consumption issues of any kind. Bringing up posts from 6 months ago still doesn't change the fact that all of these issues were resolved the day I stopped offering the Dart castings. We lost a lot of money in an effort to make it right for the customers that had problems. I'm not sure how we can't be trusted when we tried to make it right.
Originally Posted by Galen
This is a very true statement! My PRC ported Darts leaked oil into the intake ports like it was going out of style. Instead of sending them back to TSP, I decided to ship mine back to Dart and they cleaned up a set of their heads and sent them to me as part of the deal. The only thing Dart found wrong with the TSP heads (aside from they didn't particularly like the porting performed) was that the valve seals were completely trashed. Dart kept the PRC ported heads and plans to slap them on an engine to see how they perform at a later date.
TSP offered to swap me over to some LS6 heads and give me "free" gaskets and bolts. They did not offer me any money off the price of the LS6 head for the pain in the **** that heads I bought from them cost. After I thought about it, I decided to me it was worth paying an extra $150 in parts and supplies to get my heads from a company I trusted. I learned my lesson the hard way!
Galen
TSP offered to swap me over to some LS6 heads and give me "free" gaskets and bolts. They did not offer me any money off the price of the LS6 head for the pain in the **** that heads I bought from them cost. After I thought about it, I decided to me it was worth paying an extra $150 in parts and supplies to get my heads from a company I trusted. I learned my lesson the hard way!
Galen
__________________
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
10-05-2006, 07:28 PM
#34
Easy, now. You're right, it might not be the seal (even though the guy I talked to at Dart says it is). But there's none of the Darts reported to smoke other than the PRC ported ones. So are you saying it's just a coincidence, and TSP got all the bad heads? Or man'ning up and admitting fault and fixing it?
10-05-2006, 08:13 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by N4cer
There are also others who retain a 215cc runner with similar flow numbers and better curves. Same price.
Last edited by BlackHawk T/A; 10-05-2006 at 08:25 PM.
10-05-2006, 09:19 PM
#37
Originally Posted by Jason 98 TA
Honestly, I'm sick & tired of reading your inaccurate posts about those cylinder heads. It may be possible that your ported Darts had valve seal issues, but that is by no means the reason for all of these cylinder heads smoking & causing oil consumption. I don't care what anyone told you from Dart. I can give you phone numbers to several people that replaced the GUIDES on the CNC ported Darts & went on to have great luck & great results with them.
We've even recently had a nice gentlemen from Dart come to Lubbock to visit us on resolving the issues with porting the Dart castings in an effort to start offering this product again. During that meeting they provided me part numbers for valve seals that were the EXACT SAME VALVE SEAL that were installed on every set of those cylinder heads. Explain to me how the valve seal can be the issue when the part number they requested was the same seal I ran? Furthermore, how can you explain the heads that smoked while still running Dart's factory spring seat & seal setup?
I'm sorry the cylinder heads didn't work out the way they were supposed to. As a result of those issues with Dart heads, we no longer offer them. We constantly build LS6, 5.3l, LS1, and Edelbrock castings all without any oil consumption issues of any kind. Bringing up posts from 6 months ago still doesn't change the fact that all of these issues were resolved the day I stopped offering the Dart castings. We lost a lot of money in an effort to make it right for the customers that had problems. I'm not sure how we can't be trusted when we tried to make it right.
We've even recently had a nice gentlemen from Dart come to Lubbock to visit us on resolving the issues with porting the Dart castings in an effort to start offering this product again. During that meeting they provided me part numbers for valve seals that were the EXACT SAME VALVE SEAL that were installed on every set of those cylinder heads. Explain to me how the valve seal can be the issue when the part number they requested was the same seal I ran? Furthermore, how can you explain the heads that smoked while still running Dart's factory spring seat & seal setup?
I'm sorry the cylinder heads didn't work out the way they were supposed to. As a result of those issues with Dart heads, we no longer offer them. We constantly build LS6, 5.3l, LS1, and Edelbrock castings all without any oil consumption issues of any kind. Bringing up posts from 6 months ago still doesn't change the fact that all of these issues were resolved the day I stopped offering the Dart castings. We lost a lot of money in an effort to make it right for the customers that had problems. I'm not sure how we can't be trusted when we tried to make it right.
1. Your company sold at least 95% of all Darts that had oil control issues.
2. John at Dart tried to get you to send them one of the sets for them to evaluate. You wouldn't...so I did.
3. I personally thought that the porting got thin somewhere and caused the leaking, but Dart said all they could find was the seals were trashed. I did not remove the valves from the heads prior to shipment.
4. You did offer to send me a set of LS6 heads (at retail value) and free gaskets and bolts. In fairness, you were going to ship the LS6 heads to me within a few days and have me return the Darts after I got the LS6 heads. After fighting this for as long as I did, (pulling the rocker bolts out 3 times to try to seal them, yanking the intake off more times than I can remember and completely deleting the PCV system) I simply got to the point where I didn't trust the work performed at your shop...plain and simple.
5. I ordered my Darts from you because I wanted Darts...not GM castings. I trust the aftermarket casting more than the GM castings for my purposes.
6. John at Dart made me a great deal on them porting a set of heads for me in exchange of my Darts that were ported by your company. Yea, I had to buy my own gaskets and bolts, but I feel I got a good trade from them and they kept me posted every step of the way. I would offer you flow numbers on both heads performed at Dart back to back, but you would probably cry foul due to Dart being an interested party.
Now, I hate that I upset you, but those are the facts as I see them. I am not in any of this to make a profit...as others (yourself included) are. I have no reason to lie...and I personally resent your questioning my integrity. Your reaction has proven to me that my assessment of your organization was a correct one.
Have a nice day.
Galen
10-06-2006, 09:34 AM
#38
Ok I guess we'll continue this discussion, & I'll imagine for a few minutes that you know what you're talking about. Unfortunately, I will not imagine your information is correct because it's a LONG way from correct...
1. If I sold all of the smoking darts then you better go ahead & tell this guy
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...=473658&page=2
that his car isn't smoking..
You also need to call James G. from Dallas to tell him that his machine shop lied to him terribly & that his valve guides weren't CRAZY out of round. You might also go ahead & tell him that the time they replaced the valve seals they destroyed them too.
2. I was in talks with someone way over John at Dart's head at the same point you were sending those cylinder heads to Dart. Your claims that I wouldn't send the heads to them is completely ridiculous.
3. Yeah we wondered if that could be happening also, but we couldn't find any issues with it.
4. I understand your frustration, and this is exactly the reason I just don't think I ever want to rework them, even though they've told me many times that they've revised the guides.
5. I really don't need to get into a discussion on the flow differences from my cylinder head & their supposed hand-polished heads. You could read previous replies in this post & see how accurate the out of the box flow numbers are. Take a look sometime around ls1tech at people who independently flow my cylinder heads. I think you'll find that my cylinder heads almost always outflow what we advertise!
The guys from Dart have revised their guide procedures, & we've talked over running the updated version of our valve seals in an effort to resolve these issues. Honestly, I'm not sure I want to screw with them anymore.. I can build as many ls6's as I want & never have an issue, or I can port the Dart castings & always wonder when something could go haywire!
You pointing the finger at our business and saying that we can't be trusted is ridiculous. You say that you have nothing to gain, but you just said yourself that Dart cut you a smoking deal (no pun intended
) on a set of heads. You had everything to gain by cutting a deal. You can resent us "questioning your integrity", but it's meaningless when you already did the same to us.
That being said, I hope you enjoy the cylinder heads you have. Hopefully it will make good power for you!
Jason
1. If I sold all of the smoking darts then you better go ahead & tell this guy
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...=473658&page=2
that his car isn't smoking..
You also need to call James G. from Dallas to tell him that his machine shop lied to him terribly & that his valve guides weren't CRAZY out of round. You might also go ahead & tell him that the time they replaced the valve seals they destroyed them too.
2. I was in talks with someone way over John at Dart's head at the same point you were sending those cylinder heads to Dart. Your claims that I wouldn't send the heads to them is completely ridiculous.
3. Yeah we wondered if that could be happening also, but we couldn't find any issues with it.
4. I understand your frustration, and this is exactly the reason I just don't think I ever want to rework them, even though they've told me many times that they've revised the guides.
5. I really don't need to get into a discussion on the flow differences from my cylinder head & their supposed hand-polished heads. You could read previous replies in this post & see how accurate the out of the box flow numbers are. Take a look sometime around ls1tech at people who independently flow my cylinder heads. I think you'll find that my cylinder heads almost always outflow what we advertise!
The guys from Dart have revised their guide procedures, & we've talked over running the updated version of our valve seals in an effort to resolve these issues. Honestly, I'm not sure I want to screw with them anymore.. I can build as many ls6's as I want & never have an issue, or I can port the Dart castings & always wonder when something could go haywire!
You pointing the finger at our business and saying that we can't be trusted is ridiculous. You say that you have nothing to gain, but you just said yourself that Dart cut you a smoking deal (no pun intended
) on a set of heads. You had everything to gain by cutting a deal. You can resent us "questioning your integrity", but it's meaningless when you already did the same to us.That being said, I hope you enjoy the cylinder heads you have. Hopefully it will make good power for you!
Jason
Originally Posted by Galen
Jason, there are always three sides to every story...my side, your side, and the truth. Usually, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Here are the facts as I see them.
1. Your company sold at least 95% of all Darts that had oil control issues.
2. John at Dart tried to get you to send them one of the sets for them to evaluate. You wouldn't...so I did.
3. I personally thought that the porting got thin somewhere and caused the leaking, but Dart said all they could find was the seals were trashed. I did not remove the valves from the heads prior to shipment.
4. You did offer to send me a set of LS6 heads (at retail value) and free gaskets and bolts. In fairness, you were going to ship the LS6 heads to me within a few days and have me return the Darts after I got the LS6 heads. After fighting this for as long as I did, (pulling the rocker bolts out 3 times to try to seal them, yanking the intake off more times than I can remember and completely deleting the PCV system) I simply got to the point where I didn't trust the work performed at your shop...plain and simple.
5. I ordered my Darts from you because I wanted Darts...not GM castings. I trust the aftermarket casting more than the GM castings for my purposes.
6. John at Dart made me a great deal on them porting a set of heads for me in exchange of my Darts that were ported by your company. Yea, I had to buy my own gaskets and bolts, but I feel I got a good trade from them and they kept me posted every step of the way. I would offer you flow numbers on both heads performed at Dart back to back, but you would probably cry foul due to Dart being an interested party.
Now, I hate that I upset you, but those are the facts as I see them. I am not in any of this to make a profit...as others (yourself included) are. I have no reason to lie...and I personally resent your questioning my integrity. Your reaction has proven to me that my assessment of your organization was a correct one.
Have a nice day.
Galen
1. Your company sold at least 95% of all Darts that had oil control issues.
2. John at Dart tried to get you to send them one of the sets for them to evaluate. You wouldn't...so I did.
3. I personally thought that the porting got thin somewhere and caused the leaking, but Dart said all they could find was the seals were trashed. I did not remove the valves from the heads prior to shipment.
4. You did offer to send me a set of LS6 heads (at retail value) and free gaskets and bolts. In fairness, you were going to ship the LS6 heads to me within a few days and have me return the Darts after I got the LS6 heads. After fighting this for as long as I did, (pulling the rocker bolts out 3 times to try to seal them, yanking the intake off more times than I can remember and completely deleting the PCV system) I simply got to the point where I didn't trust the work performed at your shop...plain and simple.
5. I ordered my Darts from you because I wanted Darts...not GM castings. I trust the aftermarket casting more than the GM castings for my purposes.
6. John at Dart made me a great deal on them porting a set of heads for me in exchange of my Darts that were ported by your company. Yea, I had to buy my own gaskets and bolts, but I feel I got a good trade from them and they kept me posted every step of the way. I would offer you flow numbers on both heads performed at Dart back to back, but you would probably cry foul due to Dart being an interested party.
Now, I hate that I upset you, but those are the facts as I see them. I am not in any of this to make a profit...as others (yourself included) are. I have no reason to lie...and I personally resent your questioning my integrity. Your reaction has proven to me that my assessment of your organization was a correct one.
Have a nice day.
Galen
__________________
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
10-06-2006, 12:15 PM
#39
Originally Posted by Jason 98 TA
Ok I guess we'll continue this discussion, & I'll imagine for a few minutes that you know what you're talking about. Unfortunately, I will not imagine your information is correct because it's a LONG way from correct...
1. If I sold all of the smoking darts then you better go ahead & tell this guy
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...=473658&page=2
that his car isn't smoking..
You also need to call James G. from Dallas to tell him that his machine shop lied to him terribly & that his valve guides weren't CRAZY out of round. You might also go ahead & tell him that the time they replaced the valve seals they destroyed them too.
1. If I sold all of the smoking darts then you better go ahead & tell this guy
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...=473658&page=2
that his car isn't smoking..
You also need to call James G. from Dallas to tell him that his machine shop lied to him terribly & that his valve guides weren't CRAZY out of round. You might also go ahead & tell him that the time they replaced the valve seals they destroyed them too.
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...highlight=dart He is installing Darts...21 Feb 06
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...highlight=dart Heads Fing awesome...dyno tuned 471 hp with F15 and PRC Dual springs (probably changed seals since the Dart seals won't work with dual springs)
Now skip 19 threads where the Darts are the greatest head since sliced bread
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...highlight=dart Now, all of a sudden, south La no longer has mosquitos due to all the smoke from the Darts. This is 28 Jul 06...5 months after install. Hell, it took me 5 minutes to spot what took him 5 months?
I don't know James G. from Dallas...
Originally Posted by Jason 98 TA
2. I was in talks with someone way over John at Dart's head at the same point you were sending those cylinder heads to Dart. Your claims that I wouldn't send the heads to them is completely ridiculous.
John Keyes
Sales Manager
Dart Machinery Ltd.
248-362-1188 ext. 105
248-362-2027 fax
Originally Posted by Jason 98 TA
3. Yeah we wondered if that could be happening also, but we couldn't find any issues with it.
4. I understand your frustration, and this is exactly the reason I just don't think I ever want to rework them, even though they've told me many times that they've revised the guides.
4. I understand your frustration, and this is exactly the reason I just don't think I ever want to rework them, even though they've told me many times that they've revised the guides.
Originally Posted by Jason 98 TA
5. I really don't need to get into a discussion on the flow differences from my cylinder head & their supposed hand-polished heads. You could read previous replies in this post & see how accurate the out of the box flow numbers are. Take a look sometime around ls1tech at people who independently flow my cylinder heads. I think you'll find that my cylinder heads almost always outflow what we advertise!
The guys from Dart have revised their guide procedures, & we've talked over running the updated version of our valve seals in an effort to resolve these issues. Honestly, I'm not sure I want to screw with them anymore.. I can build as many ls6's as I want & never have an issue, or I can port the Dart castings & always wonder when something could go haywire!
The guys from Dart have revised their guide procedures, & we've talked over running the updated version of our valve seals in an effort to resolve these issues. Honestly, I'm not sure I want to screw with them anymore.. I can build as many ls6's as I want & never have an issue, or I can port the Dart castings & always wonder when something could go haywire!
Originally Posted by Jason 98 TA
You pointing the finger at our business and saying that we can't be trusted is ridiculous. You say that you have nothing to gain, but you just said yourself that Dart cut you a smoking deal (no pun intended ) on a set of heads. You had everything to gain by cutting a deal. You can resent us "questioning your integrity", but it's meaningless when you already did the same to us.
That being said, I hope you enjoy the cylinder heads you have. Hopefully it will make good power for you!
) on a set of heads. You had everything to gain by cutting a deal. You can resent us "questioning your integrity", but it's meaningless when you already did the same to us.That being said, I hope you enjoy the cylinder heads you have. Hopefully it will make good power for you!
When the smoking issues were going on, everyone, yourself included, pointed the finger at Dart. That was the main reason I sent them there. I felt that they deserved the chance to both clear their name and to find out if there were anything wrong with their manufacturing process.
As far as integrity...just read this quote that you led me to and tell me if this an ethical business practice.
Originally Posted by Trevor98ramair
You really have to choose which direction you're looking to go. You could set the car up for boost down the road, but you're going to sacrifice some power N/A. Our Precision Race Components cylinder heads are some of the best on the market. Besides AFR, we are the only other cylinder head company to use a full CNC valve job machine! This ensures incredible consistency with every set. Beware of advertised flow numbers. The Trick Flow heads/TEA heads always advertise higher flow numbers, particularly on the exhaust. We flow-tested a set of their 5.3L cylinder heads that a customer sent us to flow for him, and they were reported to flow 315 and 255 on the intake and exhaust, respectively. The heads flowed 298 and 201 on our bench. Their exhaust numbers in particular are always super inflated. We do not use a pipe to flow our exhaust on our SuperFlow 600 bench, which would normally add 15 cfm or so to the numbers. How they end up 50+ cfm high I don't know. The AFR 205cc heads will flow 293 cfm @ .600" lift on the intake on our bench, but it starts backing up really quick (by .625" lift). AFR's certainly aren't a bad head, but the thicker deck is the only real benefit vs. a ported LS6 or 5.3L head. In comparison, our stage 1.0 LS6 cylinder heads using the stock 2.00"/1.55" valves with our competition valve job will flow 306 cfm @ .600" lift. Our new 5.3L port that will be ready to ship in the next 10-14 days is flowing 308-310 cfm consistently. They will retail for $1,199 using the 2.04"/1.575" stainless steel valves and PRC dual spring kit w/ titanium retainers rated for .660" lift.
Galen
