Engine break in...
Staging Lane
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
From: Killeen Tx
Well i did the 500 non detergent oil , the 500 non syn, and finally put syn in it and now I have 6000 miles and it smokes now as much as it did new. Changed the heads thinking that was it and nothing but alot of head gaskets, so what does that mean?
Teching In
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Just built my 418. fired up on dyno for 15 min to warm up, check for noises, base tune, pulled to 6500 4 times to verify afr, bsfc, etc., adjusted as needed. Used 15w-40 rotella-t diesel oil for break in. Has the zinc phosphate all other oils do not have for emission reasons. Great ring seal. Changed to Syntec 5-50 fo 7 more pulls. Ring seal put simply is determined by an experienced machinist who knows what combination of stone/plateau finish that is required for a given ring set, not your break in procedure. By the way, the dyno was @ Bischoff Engine Service in W. Harrison, OH. Experienced street/race engine builders.
http://www.besracing.com/
just ones opinion...that works
http://www.besracing.com/
just ones opinion...that works
Originally Posted by orangeapeel
Seriously...You would do full throttle pulls right off the bat like that? 
Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
Please refrain from giving seriously bad advice unless you are sure of what you are talking about.
Read a little more and learn before jumping in and saying nonsense like this.
It is simple (500 miles easy driving) with non synth, change oil and filter, check everything and THEN go for your dyno pulls and fine tune.
Read a little more and learn before jumping in and saying nonsense like this.
It is simple (500 miles easy driving) with non synth, change oil and filter, check everything and THEN go for your dyno pulls and fine tune.
Please refrain from bashing people giving advice until you have done some research yourself...there are many schools of thought regarding this, and I know GOOD engine builders that break in their motors with dyno passes and WOT runs.
Last edited by magius231; Jul 20, 2006 at 05:38 AM.
Thread Starter
FormerVendor
iTrader: (15)
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,689
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From: Los Angeles, CA
Huh.... So there is really not a correct answer to how to break in an engine. Some say take it easy for the first couple hundred miles, others say drive it like you stole it!
Teching In
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
In an ls1, the only break in is the rings.(ok maybe valve springs) All you want is a cylinder finish that will LIGHTLY 'sand down' so to speak, the face of the ring so it will conform to the cylinder wall. We are only talking tenths of thousandths of an inch wear here. Determine whats right for you by the ringset!! They all seat fairly quickly. A gm crate engine has minutes of running time on it to bring to temp and check for leaks. They are ready when you get them.
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Originally Posted by Phil'sC5vette
Im at 230 miles on my new motor and clutch, and have only taken it up to 5500 once. I didnt go cheap with the DINO oil. Spend the $50.00 bucks
Ive spoken with a few engine builders since I just purchased a new motor. Ive also done a good bit of searching on this subject also. They all end up like this thread here. Two of the well respected engine builders saythat it is the rings that need to be seated. One builder said that they build them, assemble everything, run it to make sure everything is fine, drain the oil to check for shavings, refill, then off to the engine dyno. Im going to run it for 20 mintues provided the oil pressure is good, shut it off, drain oil, change filter, drive home progressing to 4k, shutting her off, letting it cool overnight, drive to change oil and filter, inspect, work on the idle and part throttle tune (i do my own tuning) and schedule a dyno session for the following week. I should have a good 3-400 miles on her. after 1k, ill change back to mobile 1 5w-30 syntheic and enjoy it after that. My only worry is oil consumption and/or the bearings having too much tolerences( i think thats what its called, im having a brain fart 
) .
) . more food for thought:
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
This has been posted here a few times and some folks have had some good success doing this.
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
This has been posted here a few times and some folks have had some good success doing this.
What I plan on doing is using dino oil, let the car idle for 20 minutes or so. Change out the oil for more dino oil then drive the car for 300-400 miles or so staying under 3500rpm. Then change the oil to synthetic and dyno and tune it.
some more, thought this was interesting...
http://www.cessna.org/benefits/articles/breakin.html
If you read through the Mototune link above, then read through this one you will see they recommend the same things...run the engine hard to seat the rings! Most aircraft engine breakin procedures I have seen recommend the same thing. For an engine that basically holds your life in the balance, I'd say thats a powerful recommendation.
http://www.cessna.org/benefits/articles/breakin.html
If you read through the Mototune link above, then read through this one you will see they recommend the same things...run the engine hard to seat the rings! Most aircraft engine breakin procedures I have seen recommend the same thing. For an engine that basically holds your life in the balance, I'd say thats a powerful recommendation.
Last edited by magius231; Jul 21, 2006 at 09:18 PM.
ack, letting the car idle for 20 minutes right off the bat would be bad!! Low oil pressure, lots of heat buildup, no pressure on rings to seat anything...PLEASE reconsider this!
When these engines are put on dynos, are they load bearing dynos? If not, then going to 6500 RPM with no load is not doing anything to seat the rings or harm the engine. It's tantamount to free revving.
I don't have any problems putting a fresh engine on a DynoJet. It's a good way to see if there are any other problems present and a good way to get a base tune on it so the engine doesn't go down the ******* while putting "break in" miles on it due to a lean A/F or something. But, I still like to take it easy on the street for the first 500 miles even after WOT DynoJet runs. And I don't switch to synthetic for a while... I'd rather have the engine loosen up a bit before going to the synthetic oils. That provides the most horsepower in my experience.
I don't have any problems putting a fresh engine on a DynoJet. It's a good way to see if there are any other problems present and a good way to get a base tune on it so the engine doesn't go down the ******* while putting "break in" miles on it due to a lean A/F or something. But, I still like to take it easy on the street for the first 500 miles even after WOT DynoJet runs. And I don't switch to synthetic for a while... I'd rather have the engine loosen up a bit before going to the synthetic oils. That provides the most horsepower in my experience.
Teching In
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Colorado
You guys do not trust your engine builders enough.
Good machine work and attention to detail during assembly is the key.
I break my motors in with two-three heat cycles from a cold start with minimal to no idle time, atleast nothing under 1800 rpms to let the rings seat in and then pull it on a dyno or run it down the track. If you fell guilty, then shift/pull it 1000 rpm short of redline the first time. No synthetics or oil additives untill it has some good run time. Diesel oils do have some of the better additive packages these days if you do not want to blend or buy quality racing oil.
[QUOTE=btwarrior] Ring seal put simply is determined by an experienced machinist who knows what combination of stone/plateau finish that is required for a given ring set, not your break in procedure.
Good machine work and attention to detail during assembly is the key.
I break my motors in with two-three heat cycles from a cold start with minimal to no idle time, atleast nothing under 1800 rpms to let the rings seat in and then pull it on a dyno or run it down the track. If you fell guilty, then shift/pull it 1000 rpm short of redline the first time. No synthetics or oil additives untill it has some good run time. Diesel oils do have some of the better additive packages these days if you do not want to blend or buy quality racing oil.
[QUOTE=btwarrior] Ring seal put simply is determined by an experienced machinist who knows what combination of stone/plateau finish that is required for a given ring set, not your break in procedure.
On The Tree
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
with new high-perf valve springs you want to heat cycle them a few times before you romp on them.
constantly vary the RPM to seat the rings. (no highway driving right away)
go to barnes and noble and look at/buy one of the many LSX engine building books.
constantly vary the RPM to seat the rings. (no highway driving right away)
go to barnes and noble and look at/buy one of the many LSX engine building books.
Last edited by mmmchickenboy; Jul 23, 2006 at 02:34 AM.
if the short block is new, there isnt a need to heat cycle the valve springs if they're from your old setup. As Ive mentioned earlier, everyone does it different and the best way to do it is to go by what your engine builder recommends..after all, if its bad advice they should be responsible since you followed their procedures...at least you would think.
as stated earlier, its not a matter of going cheap, its a matter of using the thicker oil to really lube up the cylinder walls to avoid over heating or causing damage to the rings. It even comes from the factory with a dino oil of some sort. To each his own though. Im following what my engine builder recommends and will post up what i did and give updates up to 2k...maybe a bit less if im lazy 
another point really quick: everyone here who has a new motor has done their own method..each of which has worked. From that I would conclude that there may be more than just one proper way to break it in. Just my .04 ( already posted in here once 
)
Nino
Originally Posted by Phil'sC5vette
Im at 230 miles on my new motor and clutch, and have only taken it up to 5500 once. I didnt go cheap with the DINO oil. Spend the $50.00 bucks
another point really quick: everyone here who has a new motor has done their own method..each of which has worked. From that I would conclude that there may be more than just one proper way to break it in. Just my .04 ( already posted in here once )Nino
im not sure what i can do with my setup. new motor to 408 and procharger. whole new fuel setup. so im thinking i gotta take it to a tuner and get it tuned just to even drive it on the street to break it in, also im going sd so its going to be a few trips to the tuner. but how safe am i just to turn it on and let it idle.
