View Poll Results: Which one will perform the best on a 408???
Trickflow 225
56
23.83%
AFR 225
75
31.91%
ETP 245
85
36.17%
Ported Dart
19
8.09%
Voters: 235. You may not vote on this poll
trickflow vs ETP vs AFR vs DART
08-06-2006, 02:20 PM
#42
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why not look into running L92 heads? they can be had for under under $400 bare so you will need to have them assembled... and the Aussie car intake will be availible real soon for $500 w/ 90mm tb, injectors and fuel rails
08-07-2006, 01:00 PM
#43
Wow! This thread needs to be titled "Battle of the Titans..."
Lots of good info. I haven't voted, because I quite frankly have no idea. I'd be "willing to stake my reputation" that 1/2 the vote's you're going to get in this poll have about the same (or smaller) knowledge base as me. I will admit that I needed to hold myself back from saying "WOW omg doodz ETP's be-da-bomb", which is probably more restraint than some people show.
BTW Chris, does your car have a big *** dent in the door or is that some swamp gas refracting the light off of Venus?
Lots of good info. I haven't voted, because I quite frankly have no idea. I'd be "willing to stake my reputation" that 1/2 the vote's you're going to get in this poll have about the same (or smaller) knowledge base as me. I will admit that I needed to hold myself back from saying "WOW omg doodz ETP's be-da-bomb", which is probably more restraint than some people show.
BTW Chris, does your car have a big *** dent in the door or is that some swamp gas refracting the light off of Venus?
08-07-2006, 03:15 PM
#45
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Not sure how to close the poll, or if i really need to, but i have made my decission. I will be running the TFS heads.
After trying by best to sort through the bias *** product loyalty nut swinger BS, i think the bottom line is pretty simple. You cant go wrong with TFS, ETP, or AFR. They are all top notch heads.
The reason im not going to go with the ETP, is simple.. im tired of dealing with poor customer service, and im tired of waiting and refuse to wait several months for a set of their heads.
The reason im not going with the AFR heasd is also simple.. they lost the coin the coin toss
.. and the guys at LME think the trick flow heds will be better for MY set up.
to easy.
thanks for the posts and votes.
After trying by best to sort through the bias *** product loyalty nut swinger BS, i think the bottom line is pretty simple. You cant go wrong with TFS, ETP, or AFR. They are all top notch heads.
The reason im not going to go with the ETP, is simple.. im tired of dealing with poor customer service, and im tired of waiting and refuse to wait several months for a set of their heads.
The reason im not going with the AFR heasd is also simple.. they lost the coin the coin toss
.. and the guys at LME think the trick flow heds will be better for MY set up.to easy.
thanks for the posts and votes.
08-07-2006, 05:21 PM
#47
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Originally Posted by Blue Meanie
Sometimes being the guinea pig can be fun Chris, especially when it all works out!!
heck yea, and i hope to have as ggod of luck as you with the TFS heads. I dont care what anyone says, those numbers in your sig are impressive..
08-07-2006, 08:28 PM
#48
Originally Posted by chrismcdaniel
heck yea, and i hope to have as ggod of luck as you with the TFS heads. I dont care what anyone says, those numbers in your sig are impressive..
08-09-2006, 09:33 AM
#49
Blue Meanie,
I am curious about the running rich as when I tuned her the fuel trims were pretty much -2 to -5 LT and zero ST at idle, cruise and part throttle accel. Doesn't make sense that it fouled the oxygen sensors, but dumber things have happened. Is she still starting okay hot and cold? I will be back in town Monday and we can go over things and see whats up. Talk to you soon.
Mike Norris
I am curious about the running rich as when I tuned her the fuel trims were pretty much -2 to -5 LT and zero ST at idle, cruise and part throttle accel. Doesn't make sense that it fouled the oxygen sensors, but dumber things have happened. Is she still starting okay hot and cold? I will be back in town Monday and we can go over things and see whats up. Talk to you soon.
Mike Norris
08-09-2006, 09:52 AM
#50
Hey Mike, no the car went coo-coo on Saturday. Started stalling out instead of low surging, and the SES light started to trip codes 1133 and once or twice 1153. It did that maybe every 3-4000 miles after you put in the long tubes a few months ago. I hear it was common so I cleared them and it would be fine. Now though the SES light comes on within minutes of clearing the code. The car idled ok until it tripped the code, it would only low surge once in a while or on hot startup, cold seemed fine unless the SES was tripped. Monday morning the car was repeatedly stalling in I-4 traffic. So I called the guys in your shop and bought some corvette Bosch O2's. They threw them on and hooked up the scan tool and it was definately running rich across the board. You could smell it, didn't rally need the scan tool. The O2's looked pretty sooted up. I checked the O2's we pulled next to my old ones we took out for the header sims and they looked way worse than the 50,000 mile O2's. Maybe they were bad to begin with, or the Longtubes fouled them and it just got worse with the new top end. Either way I didn't wanna risk the new ones fouling so I have the car parked till ya get back. No worries, I'll see ya Monday and we'll get it sorted.
08-09-2006, 10:36 AM
#51
The 1133 and 1153 are insufficient switching of the front sensors which can happen with longtubes. But usually the sensors are switching from rich to lean and back, just not quite right in the PCM's eyes. If the numbers are pretty much locked, it could be a ground or power issue for the oxygen sensors or if the fuel trims are way off now, possible an issue with the used MAF sensor or pigtail you bought. Just hard to say.
I do recall when we first started the car the MAF numbers were WAY off then seemed to come back in line for no reason. You probablt remember me telling you about it. When the MAF readings were way off the upsets the fuel delivery and then the fuel trims which can make it run rich for sure. Just a guess from the Keys for now, but we will see what we can get figured out.
Mike Norris
I do recall when we first started the car the MAF numbers were WAY off then seemed to come back in line for no reason. You probablt remember me telling you about it. When the MAF readings were way off the upsets the fuel delivery and then the fuel trims which can make it run rich for sure. Just a guess from the Keys for now, but we will see what we can get figured out.
Mike Norris
08-09-2006, 10:56 AM
#52
Mine did the same thing and kept telling me that it was o2s on the scan tool but was showing for both sides. Chances are that they dont keep going out on both sides so I changed the maf and fixxed the problem. It did run better after changeing the O2's also but the maf stopped the problems that were simular to yours.
I went with a new SLP maf and pigtail, pulled the screen out and Allan Futral recalibrated it.
Car cranks and idles with no serge at any time now.
good luck.
I went with a new SLP maf and pigtail, pulled the screen out and Allan Futral recalibrated it.
Car cranks and idles with no serge at any time now.
good luck.
08-09-2006, 08:32 PM
#53
Originally Posted by Mike Norris
The 1133 and 1153 are insufficient switching of the front sensors which can happen with longtubes. But usually the sensors are switching from rich to lean and back, just not quite right in the PCM's eyes. If the numbers are pretty much locked, it could be a ground or power issue for the oxygen sensors or if the fuel trims are way off now, possible an issue with the used MAF sensor or pigtail you bought. Just hard to say.
I do recall when we first started the car the MAF numbers were WAY off then seemed to come back in line for no reason. You probablt remember me telling you about it. When the MAF readings were way off the upsets the fuel delivery and then the fuel trims which can make it run rich for sure. Just a guess from the Keys for now, but we will see what we can get figured out.
Mike Norris
I do recall when we first started the car the MAF numbers were WAY off then seemed to come back in line for no reason. You probablt remember me telling you about it. When the MAF readings were way off the upsets the fuel delivery and then the fuel trims which can make it run rich for sure. Just a guess from the Keys for now, but we will see what we can get figured out.
Mike Norris
08-15-2006, 05:43 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by Brian Tooley
Westech in CA, the testing was not completely back to back, just taking stock heads off a particular setup and installing the aftermarket and comparing the difference. Dart were 31 HP, AFR were 40 something, the ET were 52 HP, the TFS were 53 HP.
After this test was performed the TFS heads had a flow improvement and the heads that were sent to Westech were put on another dyno and the latest TFS heads with the flow improvement made another 5 HP. There is supposed to be a back to back test "Ultimate cylinder head test" like was done with the Ford heads, on the LS1 and LS2 heads in the near future, so stay tuned.
After this test was performed the TFS heads had a flow improvement and the heads that were sent to Westech were put on another dyno and the latest TFS heads with the flow improvement made another 5 HP. There is supposed to be a back to back test "Ultimate cylinder head test" like was done with the Ford heads, on the LS1 and LS2 heads in the near future, so stay tuned.
Also, were the AFR's milled to 59cc for this test or were they bolted on un-milled? If the AFR's weren't milled then milling them would have put the heads right up there with ETP and the TFS heads.
08-16-2006, 02:10 PM
#55
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Originally Posted by Cobraeater
The AFR gained 40 something? Could you check to see how much hp was gained exactly(high 40's, low 40's)?
Also, were the AFR's milled to 59cc for this test or were they bolted on un-milled? If the AFR's weren't milled then milling them would have put the heads right up there with ETP and the TFS heads.
Also, were the AFR's milled to 59cc for this test or were they bolted on un-milled? If the AFR's weren't milled then milling them would have put the heads right up there with ETP and the TFS heads.
Then you could mill the ETP and the TFS heads to 59cc and be right back up there
08-16-2006, 02:58 PM
#56
Originally Posted by Cobraeater
The AFR gained 40 something? Could you check to see how much hp was gained exactly(high 40's, low 40's)?
Also, were the AFR's milled to 59cc for this test or were they bolted on un-milled? If the AFR's weren't milled then milling them would have put the heads right up there with ETP and the TFS heads.
Also, were the AFR's milled to 59cc for this test or were they bolted on un-milled? If the AFR's weren't milled then milling them would have put the heads right up there with ETP and the TFS heads.
08-19-2006, 05:47 AM
#57
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Originally Posted by Brian Tooley
Low 40's, at 66cc, the TFS heads were 64cc, less then 4 HP difference in 2cc.
08-27-2006, 02:40 PM
#59
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I'm loving my TFS/TEA heads. Really needs a tune, as it smells rich, and stalls out at idle, but it pulls like a ****. Easy 50-70rwhp SOTP. Gonna dyno it untuned, with the LS6 intake on before taking to a tuner and adding the ported FAST90/LS2 TB. Will post all results as soon. You won't regret the TFS head, I predict, and TEA has fantastic service.
08-27-2006, 02:48 PM
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After having my ET245's flowed and seeing that they die after 600....and having talked to a few others, theirs do the same...I would take a look at the TEA TFS heads. I know TFS makes good products as I have ran them for years on my Mustangs and secondly, TEA has been in the Mustang world for years. They must be doing something right. Should have stuck with what works..but I ventured out and it didn't pay