Somebody09

Dealers like to rip people off. By the way, do you have a part number on that sensor that needed replacing? My car is doing the same thing and I'd love to save 4 hours and $500. Thanks!

dalejr8ls1

iTrader: (1)

Most shops will charge a flat 1.0 hr of labor for diagnostics. If the problem is not found and requires further diagnostics then that would be brought to the customer before any further work. I dont know of a shop that just goes ahead and does 4hrs of diagnostic time and just charges the customer without notice. Plus, if they couldnt diagnose a TPS in the given 1hr. diagnostic time then you need to find a new shop. Definately file a report and demand your money back. Usually when you spend 4hrs on diagnostics you have the whole car ripped apart pannels and all in order to go through the propper wiring diagrams and proccedures to corner the problem. Good luck.

99blancoSS

iTrader: (115)

OK to the thread starter>. You got ripped!! complain and take them to small claims court you'll win.


Now for the people trying to justify what a dealer charges
The funniest converstion I ever had was with a mechannic about trying to justify his flat rate. (they get very defensive about this) A good mech can pile 11 to 18 hrs easily into one days shop ticket. He gets paid for those 18 hrs even though he only worked 7. Thats flat rate.

For all those who dont know flat rate is what most mechs at dealers get paid.
It means your not charged by how much actual time it takes your charged a set price no matter how quick they get it done.


Want to make a dealer and his mechanics cry: Give them nothing but warranty work!! Listen to them cry!

A mechanic will try and justify this by saying its all his experience that makes him get it done so quick. This is the biggest farce of all. It only takes doing soemthing once to cut your time in half the next time you do it. Thats called a learning curve.

All dealers are a rip off for service if they are charging flat rate!!

When I actualy pay a mechanic to work on my car his shop rate is $95/hr. He give a quote from the book(flat rate) but charges me the actual time it takes. He has flat rates for dyno tunes but thats about it.

BrianMSmith

So, after several calls, I got the service manager on the line. Gave him the riot act. Got 2 hours of labor credited, worth $187. So the job to diagnose a rough idle, with a code from the tps intermitten low voltage, with a new tps, came out to about $300, which is still a bit pricey, but giving them the benefit of the doubt, about what I expected to pay going in.

99blancoSS

iTrader: (115)

Thats cool $187 is better than telling you to take them to court. Which you would have won. I think 1hr would have been sufficient to diag and repair. Make sure you post in the NW section which dealer it was so the rest of us dont get ripped there as well.

DONAIMIAN

iTrader: (18)

I know its over, but while I was driving last week, my SES light came on, drove straight to autozone to get the code checked (for free). Went back in the store and bought a TPS sensor (45 bux) and installed it in the parking lot. That all took less than 20 mins. Problem solved.

I would not go back to that shop again.

Rokko

iTrader: (2)

What dealership is this? I'm in the Seattle area too and want to aviod this one if at all possible.

Don't take anything to Kirkland Pontiac either. Total ripoff joint. I have yet to take my car into a dealership and not get the run around. Specially when it came to warranty issues.

Thank God my warranty is finally up and I don't have to take it to the squealerships anymore.

BrianMSmith

Chevy Issaquah (near Seattle).

BEWARE.

You've just got to do the homework, otherwise they'll take your money and a ********.

Thank GOD for information sources like LS1TECH !!!

blackfang

iTrader: (2)

We charge 1 hour for diag unless its something like a sunroof on a 4runner or something, then that may take it to 1.5 to remove the headliner and interior panels.

chpmnsws6

iTrader: (70)

90% of the time when a sensor code pops up, DC tells us to just replace the part the first time the car comes in. If it comes in a second time, then diagnose the problem

DEVIATE

iTrader: (1)

I totally disagree with that work ethic. It provides no service to the customer. If it comes in with the problem then diagnose it first then replace the part. You do noone any favors by them having to return for you to diagnose something you should have done the first time. As far as the complaint 99blanco about how we as tech's get payed. Your learning curve is just another name for experience. If you get bit in the *** a few times you learn what to check first or what is more at to be the problem. Granted there is some highway robbery that takes place within some shops. But here is an example. Tell me why we (the tech) should be paid the book time. Book calls for 16 hours for a short block on a 95 3.0 4runner. I ahve done enough of those to be able to get it done in 6 hrs. If I am not bothered and work soley on that no interruptions. Why should I get paid only 6 hrs because it took me that time. I bought the tools to make the job easier, I went to class to make my job easier, I spent the time on many others before I got profficient enough to do it this quick. We get paid only on what we get done. How does 20 hrs a week sound at 17 an hour. Yet you spend over 60 hrs there in order to acquire that measly amount of time. The automotive world can be very chaotic. Can you live on that much money each week? Dont think so. Some tech's wont offer any breaks. I do unless it is just a bitch of a job. But I will not charge soley the amount of time I have invested unless it just took me that long. If that short block took me 18 hrs guess what the most I would make is 16hrs. There is many jobs that we do that take us right close to the amont of time the book says. There is a good amount that takes us longer and prob. the same amount the takes us less. Why should we take it in the butt constantly.

As far as the original thread starter I am sorry you had such a crappy experience. You definately got poked. There is no way it take that long for something of that type. Unless it was intermittent in which case it still is high but I have been there with the intermittent problems it sucks for the tech. Hopefully you can find a shop that will treat you right.

fast98

iTrader: (16)

100% right.............my dealer is $88 a hour out of that i get $24. i have between school and tools prob 30-40k worth of a investment to make my job easier. it could have taken that guy 8 hours to fix that car if it was a intermittent concern, all a code tells you is theres a problem with a system on the car, not whats exactly wrong. you may never know how much time he had into that car, not every tps sensor failure gets diagnosed the same way. now if it was just a straight up repair, and a easy fix i would charge 1.5hrs. thats my hour diag that i get no matter what and .5 to put the sensor on. and one more thing people always say dealer are ripoffs and any shop can fix a car, i cant tell you how many cars i've fixed that came from a aftermarket shop that couldnt fix the problem. theres scammers everywhere, but find out the facts before you go accusing someone of doing something wrong.

blackfang

iTrader: (2)

That is total crap. Why would they do the customer in like that? So much for finding the problem and doing the job right the first time and eliminating comebacks. man I don't know how you guys can deal with that and customers coming back.

99blancoSS

iTrader: (115)

You can call it experience if you want but its a learning curve and nothing more. FLAT RATE is a total rip off and you know it. You getting paid for hours you didnt work its ripping someone off. Not only are you charging $85-100/hr your exagerating on the time it took you to complete the service. SO in essence your ripping them off blind!!

As far as you making a living Pahlease dont bring that pathetic argument into play. Its assinine. Your customer has to make a living as well but you want him to make your living better becasue you think you deserve it because you learned how to be efficent at your job. Thats a friggin joke.

Hey I learned how to do my job better so I'm gonna charge you for the xtra time even though it didnt take me that long. Can you say RIP OFF!!


This whole thing started because this guy got bent over backwards at a dealer.

99blancoSS

iTrader: (115)

There is no way you can justify 4 hrs for a tps sensor. No way. Another example of dealer rip off.
Warranty claim for a window motor. They want to charge me to diag it. I'm like in a pigs *** you will. All the symptoms are that of a failure and your not going to dick with it and then tell me its the motor. I get it swapped with no diag charge. The way they diagnoose the window motor: run it up and down three times if it fails the third in a row swap it. But yet you want to charge me 1.5 hrs for that.
Sometimes the diagnosis charge is just a way to RIP YOU OFF.
Sometimes its legit.

The best way for dealers to handle it would be to say we charge a set price.
Then the public could shop and not be misled and lied to about what the charge is going to be. Advertising an hourly rate when you bill at flat rate is duping the public.
The ole well we'll only charge for as much time as it takes LIE can be eliminated.

sidewayz28

iTrader: (24)

original poster- why didnt u ask in the local section (NW section) and have someone local do the work for a million times cheaper? check it out some time..

TOS98SS

iTrader: (2)

Yeah I think that 4 hours is a bit much even if he checked the connection at the PCM that dosen't take that long . As far as the labor it is diffrent everywhere in NY dealers are about $110 per hour Seatle is a big city $90 or so isn't that bad but . At my job if the writers sold diag it was a hour most except in extreme cases then they knew up front . TPS is not an extreme case you need to take into account if they knew that it took longer than it should they shouldn't charge for there misstakes but that is what it sounds like .

Like if the flat rate was 2 hours for the job and it took you 4 ethics in the business should alow you to charge 4 because you messed up but with diag there is no flate rate so they can do what they want but they should have been upfront with you about that much money . A half hour hour I could see them telling you after but not $400 I would be pissed also

TOS98SS

iTrader: (2)

Yes people don't get this there are maybe a few things that we could beat flate rate and you need to do them a lot when I worked at Acura they gave us 5.9 hours for auto trans swaps we could do them in 3 hours that was about it for killing flate reat and only because we did about 3-4 trans a week were we able to do that . The you would get a rack and pinion to install pays 2.5 with the alignment and you need to drop the subframe out of the car . Trust me we eat it much more than we beat it . Plus these days its almost all warrenty work then you have no chaance .

Cody Brooks

iTrader: (2)

a tps is so easy to diag. its not even funny you have 3 wires, the sensor, and the pcm on that circuit nothing else. if you have a code for the tps intermittant or not get a dvom and jumper wire. find your 5v reference with your multimeter then run the red probe from the 5v reference to the ground make sure it still reads 5v if it does then those 2 wires are good, the hook the jumper wire from the 5v reference to the signal wire and look at your scan tool reading for tps voltage if it shows 5v then the 3 wires are good and the pcm is good too and it has to be the tps takes 2 mins to diagnos from start to finish at the most.

blackfang

iTrader: (2)

I dont get involved in flat rate and how a tech gets paid over the internet being I work in the business.

I do see many take it in the *** for warranty repairs though.