Whose heads would do EXACTLY 400rwhp with a TR224 & 3000 stall Vigilante?
09-16-2006, 06:08 PM
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Whose heads would do EXACTLY 400rwhp with a TR224 & 3000 stall Vigilante? A friend just made 400 rwhp through a 10-bolt and an auto with a "loose" converter. He has some mildly modified stock heads, and I'm trying to see if they're responsible for the good power numbers.
I'd guess maybe 385rwhp is the average for a 224 in a stick car with stock heads and full bolt-ons. My car's a stick and the M6 numbers hit closer to home, so I'm not sure about 4L60E numbers.
So back to my question, would a stock LS6 head make this much power through a 3000 stall converter with a 224 or would it require a ported 243/other.
In a nutshell, I'm trying to see if these heads would make power equivalent to a LS6, "stage 1" LS1 head, etc.
Numbers are from a dynojet.
Ben T.
I'd guess maybe 385rwhp is the average for a 224 in a stick car with stock heads and full bolt-ons. My car's a stick and the M6 numbers hit closer to home, so I'm not sure about 4L60E numbers.
So back to my question, would a stock LS6 head make this much power through a 3000 stall converter with a 224 or would it require a ported 243/other.
In a nutshell, I'm trying to see if these heads would make power equivalent to a LS6, "stage 1" LS1 head, etc.
Numbers are from a dynojet.
Ben T.
09-16-2006, 07:08 PM
#2
I'd say, hands down to the TSP/PRC Stage 1 LS6s for $899.99, one of the best bangs for the buck out there. You'll def. hit your 400rwhp goal.
Visit TSP's site in the sponsor list----->
However, that's not to say you can't hit 400rwhp with a 224cam and stock LS6 heads behind an M6.
Visit TSP's site in the sponsor list----->
However, that's not to say you can't hit 400rwhp with a 224cam and stock LS6 heads behind an M6.
09-17-2006, 02:42 AM
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you have to take into account you will dyno different everytime you dyno. you mention the stock ls6 head and the 3000 stall convertor. but are there any other mods? lid/exhaust will affect those numbers because allowing the engine to breathe makes more power. i don't see why 400 woulnd't be feasible through a 3000 stall with stock ls6 heads as long as there are supporting mods and a good tune.
09-17-2006, 08:04 AM
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Yes, this was with a tune and will full boltons including an LS6 intake and pulley. This is your average everyday setup. Also, he dyno'd with 3.73/1 gears.
I'm just trying to get a comparison for how much his heads are helping him.
Ben T.
I'm just trying to get a comparison for how much his heads are helping him.
Ben T.
09-17-2006, 04:36 PM
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THe thing is every combo will make different nubers on a different car, and on different dyno's. I tihnk the best way to find out what heads he has would be to contact the previous owner (Im guessing he bought car after they were put on) and ask
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09-17-2006, 05:39 PM
#8
No way is an A4 with those mods going to dyno 400rwhp. And the stall, by the way, is a horsepower robber, not adder. With those mods, 360rwhp with Stage I heads MAYBE.
**EDIT** Reread part of your post. I dynoed 320rwhp with full boltons and a 224 cam with a Midwest 3000 TC.
**EDIT** Reread part of your post. I dynoed 320rwhp with full boltons and a 224 cam with a Midwest 3000 TC.
09-17-2006, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by BeachZ
And the stall, by the way, is a horsepower robber, not adder. .
Originally Posted by BeachZ
**EDIT** Reread part of your post. I dynoed 320rwhp with full boltons and a 224 cam with a Midwest 3000 TC.
Were your numbers off of a Dynojet or a Mustang dyno?
Ben T.
09-17-2006, 08:35 PM
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I think it could be possible indeed, with mildly ported heads or 243 castings. For instance, our car did 388/386 with a 3400 stall, stock 241 casting heads, and no UD pulley; ours being a bigger Cam and stock 3.23 gearing.
09-17-2006, 09:59 PM
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Looks like his heads are making decent power. They have about a .020" mill, big valves, and a top of the line valve job.
Azrael, what cam was that with? Was your converter unlocked?
Ben T.
Azrael, what cam was that with? Was your converter unlocked?
Ben T.
09-18-2006, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Studytime
Looks like his heads are making decent power. They have about a .020" mill, big valves, and a top of the line valve job.
Azrael, what cam was that with? Was your converter unlocked?
Ben T.
Ben T.
Here is our (Cam/bolt-on with no UD pulley) graph from a recalibrated DynaPack (for around or a little lower than DynoJet numbers):
Last edited by Azrael; 09-18-2006 at 12:25 PM.
09-18-2006, 10:36 PM
#14
Originally Posted by Studytime
That's the EXACT reason I posted this thread. I'm aware a stall AND a 4L60E are both "horsepower robbers".
Your post was actually quite helpful. There's a chance the Precision Industry's stall is more efficient than the Midwest, but it's not 80rwhp more efficient. So, it sounds like these heads are helping my buddy out quite a bit.
Were your numbers off of a Dynojet or a Mustang dyno?
Ben T.
Your post was actually quite helpful. There's a chance the Precision Industry's stall is more efficient than the Midwest, but it's not 80rwhp more efficient. So, it sounds like these heads are helping my buddy out quite a bit.
Were your numbers off of a Dynojet or a Mustang dyno?
Ben T.
**EDIT** I should have added that no heads, no matter how good, will give you 80rwhp. I was trying to say I doubt your friend's numbers. No offense.
Last edited by BeachZ; 09-18-2006 at 10:49 PM.
09-18-2006, 10:46 PM
#15
First you say put down 388/386 with this:
And then you say your heads are:
How is that stock?
Originally Posted by Azrael
I think it could be possible indeed, with mildly ported heads or 243 castings. For instance, our car did 388/386 with a 3400 stall, stock 241 casting heads, and no UD pulley; ours being a bigger Cam and stock 3.23 gearing.
Originally Posted by Azrael
Absolute Speed/Patriot Stage II heads milled .020, with 2.02 in/1.575 ex with bronze guides, Patriot Dual Golds, hand lapped valves (radiused down from the 45 degree cut on the valve edge for more airflow), with a fresh 5 angle valve job and polishing on the exhaust ports.
Last edited by BeachZ; 09-18-2006 at 10:55 PM.
09-18-2006, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by BeachZ
**EDIT** I was trying to say I doubt your friend's numbers. No offense.
Anyway, it seems like he's making good power with his modified 806 castings (1998 heads) and 2.02/1.57 valves.
Ben T.
09-19-2006, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by BeachZ
First you say put down 388/386 with this:
And then you say your heads are:
How is that stock?
And then you say your heads are:
How is that stock?
Is English your native language? Re-read what I wrote! I said: "I think it could be possible indeed, with mildly ported heads or 243 castings." Meaning your friends numbers as an answer to your question. I then added: "For instance, our car did 388/386 with a 3400 stall, stock(not the ones we have now but stock) 241 casting heads, and no UD pulley; ours being a bigger Cam and stock 3.23 gearing."
Our heads now are: "Absolute Speed/Patriot Stage II heads milled .020, with 2.02 in/1.575 ex with bronze guides, Patriot Dual Golds, hand lapped valves (radiused down from the 45 degree cut on the valve edge for more airflow), with a fresh 5 angle valve job and polishing on the exhaust ports."
Our car has not been tuned or dynoed with the heads...
These were added after the dynograph I posted above, which was done with Cam/Bolt-ons only (IE stock 2002 241 casting heads).
Do you get it or do I have to draw a picture in crayon for you?
09-19-2006, 04:02 PM
#19
Originally Posted by Azrael
Is English your native language? Re-read what I wrote! I said: "I think it could be possible indeed, with mildly ported heads or 243 castings." Meaning your friends numbers as an answer to your question. I then added: "For instance, our car did 388/386 with a 3400 stall, stock(not the ones we have now but stock) 241 casting heads, and no UD pulley; ours being a bigger Cam and stock 3.23 gearing."
Our heads now are: "Absolute Speed/Patriot Stage II heads milled .020, with 2.02 in/1.575 ex with bronze guides, Patriot Dual Golds, hand lapped valves (radiused down from the 45 degree cut on the valve edge for more airflow), with a fresh 5 angle valve job and polishing on the exhaust ports."
Our car has not been tuned or dynoed with the heads...
These were added after the dynograph I posted above, which was done with Cam/Bolt-ons only (IE stock 2002 241 casting heads).
Do you get it or do I have to draw a picture in crayon for you?
Our heads now are: "Absolute Speed/Patriot Stage II heads milled .020, with 2.02 in/1.575 ex with bronze guides, Patriot Dual Golds, hand lapped valves (radiused down from the 45 degree cut on the valve edge for more airflow), with a fresh 5 angle valve job and polishing on the exhaust ports."
Our car has not been tuned or dynoed with the heads...
These were added after the dynograph I posted above, which was done with Cam/Bolt-ons only (IE stock 2002 241 casting heads).
Do you get it or do I have to draw a picture in crayon for you?
Since you seem to have a lot of free time and a bunch of crayons, a picture would be nice.
09-19-2006, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by BeachZ
Calm down. Your post just wasn't clear to me.
Since you seem to have a lot of free time and a bunch of crayons, a picture would be nice.
Since you seem to have a lot of free time and a bunch of crayons, a picture would be nice.
Anyway, good luck...
