cam sizes VS drilling the whole in your TB after swap
09-27-2006, 10:41 AM
#21
Originally Posted by SPEEDYws6
Thats about the dumbest post I've ever seen. There is no way your going to get any of the bigger cams to idle properly with software alone.
Mine did....IT wasn't "easy" but a tuner that knows what they are doing, and more importantely is willing to do a tune correctly can do it.
Drilling the throttle body is just a band-aid. It is not a fix. Get your facts straight before you go popping off comments. J-Rod is one of the most intelligent Lsx based people on this board.
Good luck to all you guys!!!
There is a vid on here of my car before i got tuned, and while it wasn't pretty, the car still started up and idled without cam-stalling out. This is also with a faulty TPS sensor. Now the car idles like butter with a new TPS sensor, and a correct tune in the car. no drilling holes needed....
09-27-2006, 11:10 AM
#22
12 Second Club
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Clarksville, TN
Posts: 1,369
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by SPEEDYws6
Thats about the dumbest post I've ever seen. There is no way your going to get any of the bigger cams to idle properly with software alone.
Are you kidding me?
Who are you and how many cars have you tuned again?
09-27-2006, 11:51 AM
#23
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Longview, TX
Posts: 1,085
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok, then how is a maxed out IAC going to correctly control idle?
What none of you are saying is what the tuners did to get the needed air after a cam swap. Who cares if you drilled a hole or if you cracked the idle screw. You have to get the air one way or another. The point I was trying to make is you can only crack the blade so far before you run into other problems. Yes there is alot more to tunning idle than just cracking the blade or drilling a hole. It take a perfect RAF, perfect VE, perfect timeing which we know takes several hours to get right.
My car has a huge cam and AC, I had to do alot of work to get it to idle properly with ac on and off. Some people may not run into those problems, but some will. If you think I don't have my facts strait your wrong, I spend most of my time here reading.
If J-Rod has a magical solution to thottle body drilling please enlighten me, cuase there is no way i could crack the TB enough for my car without running into issues.
What none of you are saying is what the tuners did to get the needed air after a cam swap. Who cares if you drilled a hole or if you cracked the idle screw. You have to get the air one way or another. The point I was trying to make is you can only crack the blade so far before you run into other problems. Yes there is alot more to tunning idle than just cracking the blade or drilling a hole. It take a perfect RAF, perfect VE, perfect timeing which we know takes several hours to get right.
My car has a huge cam and AC, I had to do alot of work to get it to idle properly with ac on and off. Some people may not run into those problems, but some will. If you think I don't have my facts strait your wrong, I spend most of my time here reading.
If J-Rod has a magical solution to thottle body drilling please enlighten me, cuase there is no way i could crack the TB enough for my car without running into issues.
Last edited by SPEEDYws6; 09-27-2006 at 12:26 PM.
09-27-2006, 12:49 PM
#24
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (87)
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With all this being said I don't think either way is wrong. They will both accomplish the same goal if done correctly. However, adjusting the set screw seems to be the prefered method since it's adjustable. Once you drilled a larger hole in the TB blade it's uncorrectable, unless you get a new blade. Adjusting the screw leaves you some margin for error since you can maneouver it until you get the car to idle correctly. IMHO adjust the screw and leave the drilling for rainy days w/ the old lady. Mike
09-27-2006, 01:38 PM
#25
12 Second Club
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Clarksville, TN
Posts: 1,369
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by SPEEDYws6
Ok, then how is a maxed out IAC going to correctly control idle?
What none of you are saying is what the tuners did to get the needed air after a cam swap. Who cares if you drilled a hole or if you cracked the idle screw. You have to get the air one way or another. The point I was trying to make is you can only crack the blade so far before you run into other problems. Yes there is alot more to tunning idle than just cracking the blade or drilling a hole. It take a perfect RAF, perfect VE, perfect timeing which we know takes several hours to get right.
My car has a huge cam and AC, I had to do alot of work to get it to idle properly with ac on and off. Some people may not run into those problems, but some will. If you think I don't have my facts strait your wrong, I spend most of my time here reading.
If J-Rod has a magical solution to thottle body drilling please enlighten me, cuase there is no way i could crack the TB enough for my car without running into issues.
What none of you are saying is what the tuners did to get the needed air after a cam swap. Who cares if you drilled a hole or if you cracked the idle screw. You have to get the air one way or another. The point I was trying to make is you can only crack the blade so far before you run into other problems. Yes there is alot more to tunning idle than just cracking the blade or drilling a hole. It take a perfect RAF, perfect VE, perfect timeing which we know takes several hours to get right.
My car has a huge cam and AC, I had to do alot of work to get it to idle properly with ac on and off. Some people may not run into those problems, but some will. If you think I don't have my facts strait your wrong, I spend most of my time here reading.
If J-Rod has a magical solution to thottle body drilling please enlighten me, cuase there is no way i could crack the TB enough for my car without running into issues.
Oh, and he runs his AC too.
09-27-2006, 01:44 PM
#26
Originally Posted by zspot98
With all this being said I don't think either way is wrong. They will both accomplish the same goal if done correctly. However, adjusting the set screw seems to be the prefered method since it's adjustable. Once you drilled a larger hole in the TB blade it's uncorrectable, unless you get a new blade. Adjusting the screw leaves you some margin for error since you can maneouver it until you get the car to idle correctly. IMHO adjust the screw and leave the drilling for rainy days w/ the old lady. Mike
epoxy up the hole . Talk about ghetto. What did i do? I bought a Fast 90/90, had the idle screw adjusted accordingly, and had a competent tuner set my car up the way it should have been in the first place.
09-27-2006, 01:57 PM
#27
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Longview, TX
Posts: 1,085
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by CamTom12
You must have missed something, because I tuned Tim's LS6-headed, TRex-cammed car by cracking the TB...
Oh, and he runs his AC too.
Oh, and he runs his AC too.
FWIW, gm actually makes plugs for the TB holes, I have seen them in alot of the earlier model 4.8 trucks from the factory.
09-27-2006, 02:37 PM
#28
6600 rpm clutch dump of death Administrator
Originally Posted by SPEEDYws6
Thats about the dumbest post I've ever seen. There is no way your going to get any of the bigger cams to idle properly with software alone.
Then you need to spend some more time educating yourself. I have a VERY large cam a car right now that has no IAC at all (DBW), and has no holes drilled in the TB. Its SD tuned, and can idle at 900-950 if you want it to. The cam really prefers about 1000-1050 but it is a 6spd, so it really doesn't matter.
You'd be amazed at what you can learn if you just spend a little more time reading, and actually logging data and tuning... There is a lot of things folks did back in the day to tune cars. MAF-T's, knock sensor filters, etc... doesn't mean you still need them. In many cases, they were crude but effective. It the same with using a drill bit to hog out a throttle plate. There are smater more effective solutions...
09-27-2006, 03:09 PM
#29
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Longview, TX
Posts: 1,085
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well I was refering to stock style intake cars that still use IAC. Hell with that setup you've eleminated the troubles.
Anyway, when done right drilling is just as effective IMO. The problem is that people go hog wild. They either don't have a way to view thier IAC counts, or they drill a hole and think "damn this thing idles good, maybe if I drill some more it will be ever better". If those are your reasonings for condoning it then I'm with you there.
Anyway, when done right drilling is just as effective IMO. The problem is that people go hog wild. They either don't have a way to view thier IAC counts, or they drill a hole and think "damn this thing idles good, maybe if I drill some more it will be ever better". If those are your reasonings for condoning it then I'm with you there.
09-27-2006, 06:34 PM
#30
Staging Lane
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Johnston, IA,
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not to sound like a dick here, but to you guys who say GM knows what they are doing by drilling the hole in the blade. For the 5.3's and 6.0's in trucks with the hole in the blade, there is a bulletin to use a rubber plug to plug the hole, and adjust he the thottle blade open so that the tps reads .08mV higher than before. The bulletin number is #04-06-04-079 - (10/25/2004), So yeah, GM does know what they are doing, plug the hole and adjust the blade
09-28-2006, 01:49 AM
#31
TECH Senior Member
Originally Posted by SPEEDYws6
Thats about the dumbest post I've ever seen. There is no way your going to get any of the bigger cams to idle properly with software alone.
My advice is to chill before you get branded as a
There is something called respect.
09-28-2006, 06:17 AM
#32
Originally Posted by J-Rod
I have a VERY large cam a car right now that has no IAC at all (DBW), and has no holes drilled in the TB. Its SD tuned, and can idle at 900-950 if you want it to. The cam really prefers about 1000-1050 but it is a 6spd, so it really doesn't matter.
Is this an LS1 car? If so, how can it be EFI and not have a IAC, please teach me, I'm all 'eyes"...
I'd love to see a pic of this.
09-28-2006, 06:22 AM
#33
Originally Posted by Screamer27
Not to sound like a dick here, but to you guys who say GM knows what they are doing by drilling the hole in the blade. For the 5.3's and 6.0's in trucks with the hole in the blade, there is a bulletin to use a rubber plug to plug the hole, and adjust he the thottle blade open so that the tps reads .08mV higher than before. The bulletin number is #04-06-04-079 - (10/25/2004), So yeah, GM does know what they are doing, plug the hole and adjust the blade
Depending on what year, those trucks have drive by wire and that doesn't apply, I know my 2006 Silverado V-Max 6.0L has DBW.
So I wonder if this will eventully apply to all GM vehicles since the 90's since most of them all have holes in their blades...
09-28-2006, 06:43 AM
#34
I found the TSB, Click Here
Sure you can plug it on a stock car, but look at WHY they are doing it, the blade is sticking. It also says if you excede the max voltage to replace the throttle body. Must have something to due with manufacturing tolerances of the Tb housing and blade diameter.
Thanks for finding the TSB in the above post!
Sure you can plug it on a stock car, but look at WHY they are doing it, the blade is sticking. It also says if you excede the max voltage to replace the throttle body. Must have something to due with manufacturing tolerances of the Tb housing and blade diameter.
Thanks for finding the TSB in the above post!
09-28-2006, 07:12 AM
#35
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (87)
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
Actualy before you start drilling just do a TPS relearn.
1> Turn ignition off
2> unplug TPS sensor at TB (botom on driver side)
3> open the TB blade a bit via idle screw
4> Turn ignition on (do not crank)
5> wait 30 seconds
6> Turn ignition off
7> Plug TPS sensor back on
8> crank motor and see if it idles better
9> repeat untill idle is to your taste.
1> Turn ignition off
2> unplug TPS sensor at TB (botom on driver side)
3> open the TB blade a bit via idle screw
4> Turn ignition on (do not crank)
5> wait 30 seconds
6> Turn ignition off
7> Plug TPS sensor back on
8> crank motor and see if it idles better
9> repeat untill idle is to your taste.
09-28-2006, 08:06 AM
#38
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Longview, TX
Posts: 1,085
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know of j-rod, usually he has very good info to offer, I should have used better words and for that I apoligise.
No one has given a good reason as to why not to drill, other than they screwed one up doing it. Regardless, people will do as they see fit, and if they don't do either way correctly it's pointless to try.
No one has given a good reason as to why not to drill, other than they screwed one up doing it. Regardless, people will do as they see fit, and if they don't do either way correctly it's pointless to try.
09-28-2006, 09:05 AM
#39
11 Second Club
iTrader: (27)
Join Date: May 2002
Location: East Palestine, OH - USA
Posts: 2,397
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think one of the biggest issues with drilling is people get overzealous and drill too big. If you go slow at it and do it right, it works fine and is the easiest way I know of to correct idle issues.
