Car Broke? Smoke, Oil in engine compartment
10-10-2006, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Got Me SOM
since i had a similar problem happen to me, i'm thinking its just needs rings but you might as well put all new bearings in it, etc.
just curious how much did you lean out to?
my friggin maf took a **** on me and I leaned out to like 14:1-15:1 on the f'n dyno. i was like holy ****!
just curious how much did you lean out to?
my friggin maf took a **** on me and I leaned out to like 14:1-15:1 on the f'n dyno. i was like holy ****!
EFI showed 13:1
10-10-2006, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Ed Blown Vert
Did a compression check on #3, #5 #7.
3 & 5 were close to 150. #7 was 120 and the tip on the plug was gone.
3 & 5 were close to 150. #7 was 120 and the tip on the plug was gone.
10-10-2006, 05:50 PM
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the only way the tip of a spark plug could get bent is if there is foreign material in the cylinder. and judging by what happened, i would say its highly probable that you lost a chunk of a piston. #7 seems like a fairly common piston to break too, ive seen a good amount of threads of people that break #7.
10-10-2006, 05:54 PM
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well if he leaned out he could have burnt up the electrode and it could have broken off and broke one of the ringlands. hopefully it didnt scar up the wall too bad.
10-10-2006, 08:51 PM
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Lucky #7. I broke that on the last motor.
I will be tearing into the engine soon. Anything else I should replace??
I will be tearing into the engine soon. Anything else I should replace??
Last edited by Ed Blown Vert; 10-10-2006 at 09:40 PM.
10-15-2006, 09:56 AM
#48
im not sure how your PCV is setup but all i have is a driverside breather on the oil cap and run the passanger side and the 1 port on the driverside to a catch can.when my car is hot itll do some smoking out of the breather.So whats next for you?
10-15-2006, 12:47 PM
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My breather is set up just like stock. Except for the check-valve between the intake and PCV.
I really expected to see something wrong. When I stuck a feeler gauge between the cylinder wall and piston on #7, I can feel the rings.
I am not sure what to do. I almost have the damn thing out. Guess I will continue to pull the engine.
I really expected to see something wrong. When I stuck a feeler gauge between the cylinder wall and piston on #7, I can feel the rings.
I am not sure what to do. I almost have the damn thing out. Guess I will continue to pull the engine.
10-15-2006, 05:37 PM
#50
itd be amazing if everything checks out ok.when i saw your vids it had me very concerned since mine has smoke like that as well with the oil cap off.Im curious to see what it ends up being.If the pistons are ok and you said number 7's compression was a bit low maybe just a ring got fried???
10-15-2006, 06:11 PM
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Thats what I am thinking. Rings are bad, boost got past them. push the oil out through a gasket.
And when the oil got all over the engine. Some got on the blower belt, causing it to slip. That why it fell on its face in 3rd gear.
And when the oil got all over the engine. Some got on the blower belt, causing it to slip. That why it fell on its face in 3rd gear.
10-16-2006, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by longrange4u
May wanna still leak down test... it isnt hard and the tool only costs like 35$ from autozone.
10-20-2006, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Ed Blown Vert
It was alot of oil. Completely covered the underside and even hit the hood.
1) the oil spray all over the engine bay could be caused by 1 of 2 things.
The check valve in the PCV system failed and boost is pressurizing your engine forcing out the oil. BUT, looking at your video of the oil smoke coming out of your oil filler cap (while at idle and not under boost) leads me to believe you are seeing excessive blow by from a damaged piston or cylinder wall (the second of the two possibilities).
Either way, check the check valve and make sure it is working properly before you fire up the motor again.
2) Since you have the heads off, drop the oip pan, rotate the crank so you and remove the rod cap on the cyl with low pressure (I assume it is the same one you melted the spark plug tip on) and push the piston up from the bottom and remove it for inspection. You could have a ringland that has cracked but not come apart from the piston. You could have a ringland that has pinched the ring so it is not floating anymore causing the drop in compression. You could have a cracked ring, etc.
You really need to remove the piston to take a good look at them. and you might as well do it to the other 7 while your at it and put in new rod bearings if needed. (yes I've done an "in frame" overhaul of an engine using this procedure in the past...... not the easiest to do, but it can be done).
3) burning off the spark plug tip is a common problem with nitros and leaning out for even a second (dont ask me how I know
). That molten piece of metal will either make it out of the cylinder or not). It can 1) Damage the cyl wall, 2) damage the rings or ringland, or 3) get caught by the valve when it closes and damage either the valve, valve seat, or both. So you might want to remove the valve springs on that cylinder and check the valves etc.4) As soon as you leaned out on your run and burned the electrode off the plug, that cyl stopped firing........ that's why she layed down so hard . But you need to get to the root cause of the lean out before you run it again.
Lean out is caused by one of two things (given the other is held constant). Too much air (boost spikes without fuel being added), or too little fuel (pressure drops, or injector gets stuck, or wiring to injector gets screwed up)
My bet is one fuel pressure drop (regulator, fuel pump, dirty fuel filter, low fuel level starvation because all the fuel in the tank sloshed to the rear under hard acceleration and the fuel pump starved and sucked air for a moment. That's why I always run with at least 3/4 tank even with the weight penalty.
Hope some of this helps.
Let me know if I can be of any further help.
Harry
10-20-2006, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by searay90
I think you have a couple of things going on here.
1) the oil spray all over the engine bay could be caused by 1 of 2 things.
The check valve in the PCV system failed and boost is pressurizing your engine forcing out the oil. BUT, looking at your video of the oil smoke coming out of your oil filler cap (while at idle and not under boost) leads me to believe you are seeing excessive blow by from a damaged piston or cylinder wall (the second of the two possibilities).
Either way, check the check valve and make sure it is working properly before you fire up the motor again.
2) Since you have the heads off, drop the oip pan, rotate the crank so you and remove the rod cap on the cyl with low pressure (I assume it is the same one you melted the spark plug tip on) and push the piston up from the bottom and remove it for inspection. You could have a ringland that has cracked but not come apart from the piston. You could have a ringland that has pinched the ring so it is not floating anymore causing the drop in compression. You could have a cracked ring, etc.
You really need to remove the piston to take a good look at them. and you might as well do it to the other 7 while your at it and put in new rod bearings if needed. (yes I've done an "in frame" overhaul of an engine using this procedure in the past...... not the easiest to do, but it can be done).
3) burning off the spark plug tip is a common problem with nitros and leaning out for even a second (dont ask me how I know ). That molten piece of metal will either make it out of the cylinder or not). It can 1) Damage the cyl wall, 2) damage the rings or ringland, or 3) get caught by the valve when it closes and damage either the valve, valve seat, or both. So you might want to remove the valve springs on that cylinder and check the valves etc.
4) As soon as you leaned out on your run and burned the electrode off the plug, that cyl stopped firing........ that's why she layed down so hard . But you need to get to the root cause of the lean out before you run it again.
Lean out is caused by one of two things (given the other is held constant). Too much air (boost spikes without fuel being added), or too little fuel (pressure drops, or injector gets stuck, or wiring to injector gets screwed up)
My bet is one fuel pressure drop (regulator, fuel pump, dirty fuel filter, low fuel level starvation because all the fuel in the tank sloshed to the rear under hard acceleration and the fuel pump starved and sucked air for a moment. That's why I always run with at least 3/4 tank even with the weight penalty.
Hope some of this helps.
Let me know if I can be of any further help.
Harry
1) the oil spray all over the engine bay could be caused by 1 of 2 things.
The check valve in the PCV system failed and boost is pressurizing your engine forcing out the oil. BUT, looking at your video of the oil smoke coming out of your oil filler cap (while at idle and not under boost) leads me to believe you are seeing excessive blow by from a damaged piston or cylinder wall (the second of the two possibilities).
Either way, check the check valve and make sure it is working properly before you fire up the motor again.
2) Since you have the heads off, drop the oip pan, rotate the crank so you and remove the rod cap on the cyl with low pressure (I assume it is the same one you melted the spark plug tip on) and push the piston up from the bottom and remove it for inspection. You could have a ringland that has cracked but not come apart from the piston. You could have a ringland that has pinched the ring so it is not floating anymore causing the drop in compression. You could have a cracked ring, etc.
You really need to remove the piston to take a good look at them. and you might as well do it to the other 7 while your at it and put in new rod bearings if needed. (yes I've done an "in frame" overhaul of an engine using this procedure in the past...... not the easiest to do, but it can be done).
3) burning off the spark plug tip is a common problem with nitros and leaning out for even a second (dont ask me how I know
). That molten piece of metal will either make it out of the cylinder or not). It can 1) Damage the cyl wall, 2) damage the rings or ringland, or 3) get caught by the valve when it closes and damage either the valve, valve seat, or both. So you might want to remove the valve springs on that cylinder and check the valves etc.4) As soon as you leaned out on your run and burned the electrode off the plug, that cyl stopped firing........ that's why she layed down so hard . But you need to get to the root cause of the lean out before you run it again.
Lean out is caused by one of two things (given the other is held constant). Too much air (boost spikes without fuel being added), or too little fuel (pressure drops, or injector gets stuck, or wiring to injector gets screwed up)
My bet is one fuel pressure drop (regulator, fuel pump, dirty fuel filter, low fuel level starvation because all the fuel in the tank sloshed to the rear under hard acceleration and the fuel pump starved and sucked air for a moment. That's why I always run with at least 3/4 tank even with the weight penalty.
Hope some of this helps.
Let me know if I can be of any further help.
Harry
10-20-2006, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by searay90
I think you have a couple of things going on here.
1) the oil spray all over the engine bay could be caused by 1 of 2 things.
The check valve in the PCV system failed and boost is pressurizing your engine forcing out the oil. BUT, looking at your video of the oil smoke coming out of your oil filler cap (while at idle and not under boost) leads me to believe you are seeing excessive blow by from a damaged piston or cylinder wall (the second of the two possibilities).
Either way, check the check valve and make sure it is working properly before you fire up the motor again.
2) Since you have the heads off, drop the oip pan, rotate the crank so you and remove the rod cap on the cyl with low pressure (I assume it is the same one you melted the spark plug tip on) and push the piston up from the bottom and remove it for inspection. You could have a ringland that has cracked but not come apart from the piston. You could have a ringland that has pinched the ring so it is not floating anymore causing the drop in compression. You could have a cracked ring, etc.
You really need to remove the piston to take a good look at them. and you might as well do it to the other 7 while your at it and put in new rod bearings if needed. (yes I've done an "in frame" overhaul of an engine using this procedure in the past...... not the easiest to do, but it can be done).
3) burning off the spark plug tip is a common problem with nitros and leaning out for even a second (dont ask me how I know ). That molten piece of metal will either make it out of the cylinder or not). It can 1) Damage the cyl wall, 2) damage the rings or ringland, or 3) get caught by the valve when it closes and damage either the valve, valve seat, or both. So you might want to remove the valve springs on that cylinder and check the valves etc.
4) As soon as you leaned out on your run and burned the electrode off the plug, that cyl stopped firing........ that's why she layed down so hard . But you need to get to the root cause of the lean out before you run it again.
Lean out is caused by one of two things (given the other is held constant). Too much air (boost spikes without fuel being added), or too little fuel (pressure drops, or injector gets stuck, or wiring to injector gets screwed up)
My bet is one fuel pressure drop (regulator, fuel pump, dirty fuel filter, low fuel level starvation because all the fuel in the tank sloshed to the rear under hard acceleration and the fuel pump starved and sucked air for a moment. That's why I always run with at least 3/4 tank even with the weight penalty.
Hope some of this helps.
Let me know if I can be of any further help.
Harry
1) the oil spray all over the engine bay could be caused by 1 of 2 things.
The check valve in the PCV system failed and boost is pressurizing your engine forcing out the oil. BUT, looking at your video of the oil smoke coming out of your oil filler cap (while at idle and not under boost) leads me to believe you are seeing excessive blow by from a damaged piston or cylinder wall (the second of the two possibilities).
Either way, check the check valve and make sure it is working properly before you fire up the motor again.
2) Since you have the heads off, drop the oip pan, rotate the crank so you and remove the rod cap on the cyl with low pressure (I assume it is the same one you melted the spark plug tip on) and push the piston up from the bottom and remove it for inspection. You could have a ringland that has cracked but not come apart from the piston. You could have a ringland that has pinched the ring so it is not floating anymore causing the drop in compression. You could have a cracked ring, etc.
You really need to remove the piston to take a good look at them. and you might as well do it to the other 7 while your at it and put in new rod bearings if needed. (yes I've done an "in frame" overhaul of an engine using this procedure in the past...... not the easiest to do, but it can be done).
3) burning off the spark plug tip is a common problem with nitros and leaning out for even a second (dont ask me how I know
). That molten piece of metal will either make it out of the cylinder or not). It can 1) Damage the cyl wall, 2) damage the rings or ringland, or 3) get caught by the valve when it closes and damage either the valve, valve seat, or both. So you might want to remove the valve springs on that cylinder and check the valves etc.4) As soon as you leaned out on your run and burned the electrode off the plug, that cyl stopped firing........ that's why she layed down so hard . But you need to get to the root cause of the lean out before you run it again.
Lean out is caused by one of two things (given the other is held constant). Too much air (boost spikes without fuel being added), or too little fuel (pressure drops, or injector gets stuck, or wiring to injector gets screwed up)
My bet is one fuel pressure drop (regulator, fuel pump, dirty fuel filter, low fuel level starvation because all the fuel in the tank sloshed to the rear under hard acceleration and the fuel pump starved and sucked air for a moment. That's why I always run with at least 3/4 tank even with the weight penalty.
Hope some of this helps.
Let me know if I can be of any further help.
Harry
Injectors are fail safe..They dont get stuck in the closed section..Rule that one out right there. Not enough fuel VOLUME at the rails can lean it out. And a fuel injector orfice that isnt large enough to flow a large volume of fuel will cause a lean condition. But never an injector that gets stuck. They stick in the open position for a reason!
10-20-2006, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by V6 Bird
Injectors are fail safe..They dont get stuck in the closed section..Rule that one out right there. Not enough fuel VOLUME at the rails can lean it out. And a fuel injector orfice that isnt large enough to flow a large volume of fuel will cause a lean condition. But never an injector that gets stuck. They stick in the open position for a reason!
It is unlikely that an injector may be the cause, but it could be. So don't just dismiss it in doing your "root cause analysis". Start with the most likely causes and keep looking until you find out what happened.
I love the tunability, drivability, economy and power inherent in EFI, but when it comes to troubleshooting a fuel system issue......... you can't beat the ease of troubleshooting the old 4BBl carbs that I grew up playing with.
Buy hey, you talking to a guy who is transplaning a GM TBI system to his old 79 Dodge ramcharger 4X4 lake truck because I hate that damn cold natured SOB.
10-20-2006, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by searay90
I think you have a couple of things going on here.
1) the oil spray all over the engine bay could be caused by 1 of 2 things.
The check valve in the PCV system failed and boost is pressurizing your engine forcing out the oil. BUT, looking at your video of the oil smoke coming out of your oil filler cap (while at idle and not under boost) leads me to believe you are seeing excessive blow by from a damaged piston or cylinder wall (the second of the two possibilities).
Either way, check the check valve and make sure it is working properly before you fire up the motor again.
2) Since you have the heads off, drop the oip pan, rotate the crank so you and remove the rod cap on the cyl with low pressure (I assume it is the same one you melted the spark plug tip on) and push the piston up from the bottom and remove it for inspection. You could have a ringland that has cracked but not come apart from the piston. You could have a ringland that has pinched the ring so it is not floating anymore causing the drop in compression. You could have a cracked ring, etc.
You really need to remove the piston to take a good look at them. and you might as well do it to the other 7 while your at it and put in new rod bearings if needed. (yes I've done an "in frame" overhaul of an engine using this procedure in the past...... not the easiest to do, but it can be done).
3) burning off the spark plug tip is a common problem with nitros and leaning out for even a second (dont ask me how I know ). That molten piece of metal will either make it out of the cylinder or not). It can 1) Damage the cyl wall, 2) damage the rings or ringland, or 3) get caught by the valve when it closes and damage either the valve, valve seat, or both. So you might want to remove the valve springs on that cylinder and check the valves etc.
4) As soon as you leaned out on your run and burned the electrode off the plug, that cyl stopped firing........ that's why she layed down so hard . But you need to get to the root cause of the lean out before you run it again.
Lean out is caused by one of two things (given the other is held constant). Too much air (boost spikes without fuel being added), or too little fuel (pressure drops, or injector gets stuck, or wiring to injector gets screwed up)
My bet is one fuel pressure drop (regulator, fuel pump, dirty fuel filter, low fuel level starvation because all the fuel in the tank sloshed to the rear under hard acceleration and the fuel pump starved and sucked air for a moment. That's why I always run with at least 3/4 tank even with the weight penalty.
Hope some of this helps.
Let me know if I can be of any further help.
Harry
1) the oil spray all over the engine bay could be caused by 1 of 2 things.
The check valve in the PCV system failed and boost is pressurizing your engine forcing out the oil. BUT, looking at your video of the oil smoke coming out of your oil filler cap (while at idle and not under boost) leads me to believe you are seeing excessive blow by from a damaged piston or cylinder wall (the second of the two possibilities).
Either way, check the check valve and make sure it is working properly before you fire up the motor again.
2) Since you have the heads off, drop the oip pan, rotate the crank so you and remove the rod cap on the cyl with low pressure (I assume it is the same one you melted the spark plug tip on) and push the piston up from the bottom and remove it for inspection. You could have a ringland that has cracked but not come apart from the piston. You could have a ringland that has pinched the ring so it is not floating anymore causing the drop in compression. You could have a cracked ring, etc.
You really need to remove the piston to take a good look at them. and you might as well do it to the other 7 while your at it and put in new rod bearings if needed. (yes I've done an "in frame" overhaul of an engine using this procedure in the past...... not the easiest to do, but it can be done).
3) burning off the spark plug tip is a common problem with nitros and leaning out for even a second (dont ask me how I know
). That molten piece of metal will either make it out of the cylinder or not). It can 1) Damage the cyl wall, 2) damage the rings or ringland, or 3) get caught by the valve when it closes and damage either the valve, valve seat, or both. So you might want to remove the valve springs on that cylinder and check the valves etc.4) As soon as you leaned out on your run and burned the electrode off the plug, that cyl stopped firing........ that's why she layed down so hard . But you need to get to the root cause of the lean out before you run it again.
Lean out is caused by one of two things (given the other is held constant). Too much air (boost spikes without fuel being added), or too little fuel (pressure drops, or injector gets stuck, or wiring to injector gets screwed up)
My bet is one fuel pressure drop (regulator, fuel pump, dirty fuel filter, low fuel level starvation because all the fuel in the tank sloshed to the rear under hard acceleration and the fuel pump starved and sucked air for a moment. That's why I always run with at least 3/4 tank even with the weight penalty.
Hope some of this helps.
Let me know if I can be of any further help.
Harry
Thanks for the great answer.
I am pretty sure I ran out of fuel due to me spinning the engine to 6800 instead of 6300 where my Windows switch is set to.
I won't rule out the check valve, in fact it seemed liked all the oil was coming from the area of the PCV. I may be pulling the engine this weekend and I can take a closer look.
But I think it may be the rings. I plan on honing and re-ringing all 8. And replacing anything else that may be wrong.
Should I have them go over the heads too? They seem to be fine.