Broken MS3 Cam?!?!?!?!
11-08-2006, 10:13 PM
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Broken MS3 Cam?!?!?!?! [rant]
I thought I would post this up for everyone to see because everyone that i have told about this can not believe it happened. Over the summer I had a heads and cam package from TSP installed including a MS3 cam along TSP LS6 stage 1 heads and all the supporting hardware such as hardened pushrods and dual valvesprings in my 1999 SS Camaro by a local reputable shop that works mostly on LSX vehicles. The cam was inspected before being installed for any shipping damage. After the car was put back together and put on the dyno the car would misfire everytime at 5000rpms and it would continue to misfire all the way til redline.
After checking everything that could possibly be checked for misfires it finally revealed itself. While revving the motor to test which cylinders were misfiring there was a loud bang from the engine compartment... so it was immediately shut off. Upon inspection this was found:
A piece of one of the lobes from the cam broke off and pushed the lifter up too far causing coil bind which broke my brand new head. The also scarred up my bearings. I know its hard to tell by the pics but that is what happened... there is a hole completely through the head. Because of pieces of metal probably flying everywhere in my motor we figured it was best to take out the motor and hone it and put new bearings, piston rings, and whatever else that may have been or was damaged.
WHAT TSP AND COMP ARE DOING ABOUT IT
All of TSP's cams are made by Comp so I had to go through both companies to see if i was going to have any help with these damages. After sending the cam back to Comp for them to inspect and waiting for over a month I finally got word that they were going to pay for a new cam (which to me means that they admit the cam was defective) and they only give me a discount on a new head..... i guess that means that I have to pay for everything else which includes labor to take out and put back in motor, send motor to machine shop, labor for diassembling and reassembling motor, new bearings, gaskets ect. ect... plus pay for a new cylinder head.
[/rant]
*Attention*- Im not asking what happened to my car... i know what happened... im just sharing the problems i have been having.
I realize that i only have 1 post but i have been viewing the site for some time now and i never felt the need to post until now.
I thought I would post this up for everyone to see because everyone that i have told about this can not believe it happened. Over the summer I had a heads and cam package from TSP installed including a MS3 cam along TSP LS6 stage 1 heads and all the supporting hardware such as hardened pushrods and dual valvesprings in my 1999 SS Camaro by a local reputable shop that works mostly on LSX vehicles. The cam was inspected before being installed for any shipping damage. After the car was put back together and put on the dyno the car would misfire everytime at 5000rpms and it would continue to misfire all the way til redline.
After checking everything that could possibly be checked for misfires it finally revealed itself. While revving the motor to test which cylinders were misfiring there was a loud bang from the engine compartment... so it was immediately shut off. Upon inspection this was found: A piece of one of the lobes from the cam broke off and pushed the lifter up too far causing coil bind which broke my brand new head. The also scarred up my bearings. I know its hard to tell by the pics but that is what happened... there is a hole completely through the head. Because of pieces of metal probably flying everywhere in my motor we figured it was best to take out the motor and hone it and put new bearings, piston rings, and whatever else that may have been or was damaged.
WHAT TSP AND COMP ARE DOING ABOUT IT
All of TSP's cams are made by Comp so I had to go through both companies to see if i was going to have any help with these damages. After sending the cam back to Comp for them to inspect and waiting for over a month I finally got word that they were going to pay for a new cam (which to me means that they admit the cam was defective) and they only give me a discount on a new head..... i guess that means that I have to pay for everything else which includes labor to take out and put back in motor, send motor to machine shop, labor for diassembling and reassembling motor, new bearings, gaskets ect. ect... plus pay for a new cylinder head.
[/rant]
*Attention*- Im not asking what happened to my car... i know what happened... im just sharing the problems i have been having.
I realize that i only have 1 post but i have been viewing the site for some time now and i never felt the need to post until now.
Last edited by Quik99SS; 01-20-2007 at 09:17 PM.
11-08-2006, 10:25 PM
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Ok, well number one.... If all of the install was done by the shop, and the parts were purchased through a shop, and you paid for their services to install everything, they should be more than willing to help cover the costs.
Number two, the cam looks like it is defective, but was the car oiling properly, and was the valve lash set up correctly?
Three.... How long was the car run, and how many pulls did you make on the dyno while you were trying to figure out the problem? Did you lift when it started misfiring, or did you try and drive through it?
I would say that it looks like the head broker first, but the heel of the cam is damaged, not the toe.
I wish you the best, and hope the shop is reputable and will cover your costs. If you need new 853 heads I have like 3 sets so send me a PM.
Good Luck
Chris
Number two, the cam looks like it is defective, but was the car oiling properly, and was the valve lash set up correctly?
Three.... How long was the car run, and how many pulls did you make on the dyno while you were trying to figure out the problem? Did you lift when it started misfiring, or did you try and drive through it?
I would say that it looks like the head broker first, but the heel of the cam is damaged, not the toe.
I wish you the best, and hope the shop is reputable and will cover your costs. If you need new 853 heads I have like 3 sets so send me a PM.
Good Luck
Chris
11-08-2006, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by 2001CamaroGuy
umm......I find it hard to believe the cam did this. It looks to me like the cylinder head cracked and broke under the rocker arm.
*I edited my post above*
As far as i know the LS6 oil pump was working correctly and valve lash was setup correctly. The car was only ran a little ways past 5000rpms each time on the dyno just to check to see if it was still misfiring.
11-08-2006, 11:13 PM
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IMO take the free cam and the substantial discount on the head. most companies would be like "its your fault" and at best most companies say "we will replace the defective part" but not touch any of the other stuff associated with it. make sure there is no trash in the rest of the motor though
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11-08-2006, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Cop Car
IMO take the free cam and the substantial discount on the head. most companies would be like "its your fault" and at best most companies say "we will replace the defective part" but not touch any of the other stuff associated with it. make sure there is no trash in the rest of the motor though
If there is one, has comp addressed the quality control issue, or should we hold off on buying comp cams?
Originally Posted by racer7088
Looks like you may have been locked up or in coil bind on that rocker and broke the head?
Last edited by Enthusiast; 11-08-2006 at 11:28 PM.
11-09-2006, 12:49 AM
#10
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Originally Posted by Enthusiast
Didn't he say it was a package from TSP? So all the spring pressures should have been worked out.
11-09-2006, 01:23 AM
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The PRC LS6 heads had an issue before with the material under the rocker being too thin and breaking. However that issue was addressed and fixed by welding more material under the rocker and there have been no mishaps since then. Im about to install a MS4 with PRC LS6 heads this weekend. Now im going to be paranoid after this thread.
11-09-2006, 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted by racer7088
I don't know anything about it but if the heads aren't from them they don't know if the springs are right or not unless someone checked everything to make sure they were not in any kind of a bind situation when they were setup. Somehow the top of the port got ripped off so it was either a big load from coil bind or retainer to seal etc. or the head might have had some porosity in the casting there that weakened it? I can't really see what happened to the cam so I am just guessing as well.
*~*~*~*A piece of a lobe actually broke off the cam and went through the head. I know its hard to tell by the pic but that is what happened.*~*~*~
11-09-2006, 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by ArrestMeRed99Z28
What lifters were in the car when this happened? What condition are the lifters in now?
BTW Im not asking what happened.... i know what happened. I just throught i would share the problems i have been having.
Last edited by Quik99SS; 11-09-2006 at 02:24 AM.
11-09-2006, 08:25 AM
#15
FormerVendor
Are you saying though that the head has a hole from the bottom through the top of your heads? It doesn't look like that from the pics at all. It just looks like the rockers and top of the port it was attached to broke off. I do see where the heads were already assembled though so they shouldn't have had coil bind or anything. Maybe you could show a picture of where the cam lobe came through from the bottom of the head. I am not saying though that I think it's your fault I just wondered if a piece of the cam lobe really could even do what you are saying in your post. I've never seen anything like that!
Originally Posted by Quik99SS
[rant] A piece of one of the lobes from the cam broke off and shot through one of my brand new cylinder heads and scarred up my bearings. I know its hard to tell by the pics but that is what happened... there is a hole completely through the head. Because of pieces of metal probably flying everywhere in my motor we figured it was best to take out the motor and hone it and put new bearings, piston rings, and whatever else that may have been or was damaged.
[/rant]
*Attention*- Im not asking what happened to my car... i know what happened... im just sharing the problems i have been having.
I realize that i only have 1 post but i have been viewing the site for some time now and i never felt the need to post until now.
[/rant]
*Attention*- Im not asking what happened to my car... i know what happened... im just sharing the problems i have been having.
I realize that i only have 1 post but i have been viewing the site for some time now and i never felt the need to post until now.
11-09-2006, 10:02 AM
#17
Let me start off by saying that it took eight days for Comp to decide they were going to replace the camshaft for you. I have all of the e-mails from the shop that did your work that shows when the cam left their facility, when it arrived at Comp, and when they decided to warranty the camshaft for you. I asked the shop what cam you wanted to replace it, and they said an MS4. We sent it out the same day from our shop. The defective camshaft arrived at Comp on 10/9, and they decided to warranty it on 10/17.
We use Comp Cams for our cam grinding because of their reputation, accuracy, and ability to make great power. Of the literally thousands of camshafts that we've had ground for us by them, this is the first time we've ever seen this happen. I can tell you that the cylinder head did not break off first, causing an entire lobe of the camshaft to break off. If the cylinder head was untouched and was still assembled as when it came out of the box, there was not a coil bind issue. Our dual valve spring does not coil bind until .720" lift! We've run a LOT of MS4's with the PRC stage 1 LS6 heads with no problems whatsoever. We're always here to help our customers in any way possible. I personally stayed in contact with Comp regarding the situation, and we covered the CNC work, valve job, new valves, etc. to help get you back up and running. All we charged for was the head casting. We tried to help in any way that we could to get you back up and running. The cylinder head did not cause the failure, but we wanted to help you out. We have sold and installed numerous cams since yours was installed in late August/early September with no problems at all. I can say with 100% confidence that the cylinder head did NOT break, causing the lobe of the camshaft to break off.
Feel free to give me a call if you would like to discuss this.
Trevor
Texas Speed & Performance
We use Comp Cams for our cam grinding because of their reputation, accuracy, and ability to make great power. Of the literally thousands of camshafts that we've had ground for us by them, this is the first time we've ever seen this happen. I can tell you that the cylinder head did not break off first, causing an entire lobe of the camshaft to break off. If the cylinder head was untouched and was still assembled as when it came out of the box, there was not a coil bind issue. Our dual valve spring does not coil bind until .720" lift! We've run a LOT of MS4's with the PRC stage 1 LS6 heads with no problems whatsoever. We're always here to help our customers in any way possible. I personally stayed in contact with Comp regarding the situation, and we covered the CNC work, valve job, new valves, etc. to help get you back up and running. All we charged for was the head casting. We tried to help in any way that we could to get you back up and running. The cylinder head did not cause the failure, but we wanted to help you out. We have sold and installed numerous cams since yours was installed in late August/early September with no problems at all. I can say with 100% confidence that the cylinder head did NOT break, causing the lobe of the camshaft to break off.
Feel free to give me a call if you would like to discuss this.
Trevor
Texas Speed & Performance
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11-09-2006, 10:17 AM
#18
Sure sounds like TSP is going beyond what most shops would ever consider doing. Furthermore it seems that they have proof that this was taken care of in a timely manner. QUIK99, sounds like you're pissed off but an apology should be in order?
Asking you to pay a couple hundred bucks for a new casting is MORE than fair.
Asking you to pay a couple hundred bucks for a new casting is MORE than fair.
11-09-2006, 10:36 AM
#19
FormerVendor
Sounds good Trevor as I didn't know that you guys had sent the heads all put together. I am planning on trying out some of your cylinder heads as well since they seem to be making very good power! I havent heard of anything like that with Comp either and I have personally used hundreds as well. A lifter didn't spin in the bore did it? I know people are always quick to blame the parts and rarely is it their fault.
Originally Posted by Trevor @ Texas Speed & Perf.
Let me start off by saying that it took eight days for Comp to decide they were going to replace the camshaft for you. I have all of the e-mails from the shop that did your work that shows when the cam left their facility, when it arrived at Comp, and when they decided to warranty the camshaft for you. I asked the shop what cam you wanted to replace it, and they said an MS4. We sent it out the same day from our shop. The defective camshaft arrived at Comp on 10/9, and they decided to warranty it on 10/17.
We use Comp Cams for our cam grinding because of their reputation, accuracy, and ability to make great power. Of the literally thousands of camshafts that we've had ground for us by them, this is the first time we've ever seen this happen. I can tell you that the cylinder head did not break off first, causing an entire lobe of the camshaft to break off. If the cylinder head was untouched and was still assembled as when it came out of the box, there was not a coil bind issue. Our dual valve spring does not coil bind until .720" lift! We've run a LOT of MS4's with the PRC stage 1 LS6 heads with no problems whatsoever. We're always here to help our customers in any way possible. I personally stayed in contact with Comp regarding the situation, and we covered the CNC work, valve job, new valves, etc. to help get you back up and running. All we charged for was the head casting. We tried to help in any way that we could to get you back up and running. The cylinder head did not cause the failure, but we wanted to help you out. We have sold and installed numerous cams since yours was installed in late August/early September with no problems at all. I can say with 100% confidence that the cylinder head did NOT break, causing the lobe of the camshaft to break off.
Feel free to give me a call if you would like to discuss this.
Trevor
Texas Speed & Performance
We use Comp Cams for our cam grinding because of their reputation, accuracy, and ability to make great power. Of the literally thousands of camshafts that we've had ground for us by them, this is the first time we've ever seen this happen. I can tell you that the cylinder head did not break off first, causing an entire lobe of the camshaft to break off. If the cylinder head was untouched and was still assembled as when it came out of the box, there was not a coil bind issue. Our dual valve spring does not coil bind until .720" lift! We've run a LOT of MS4's with the PRC stage 1 LS6 heads with no problems whatsoever. We're always here to help our customers in any way possible. I personally stayed in contact with Comp regarding the situation, and we covered the CNC work, valve job, new valves, etc. to help get you back up and running. All we charged for was the head casting. We tried to help in any way that we could to get you back up and running. The cylinder head did not cause the failure, but we wanted to help you out. We have sold and installed numerous cams since yours was installed in late August/early September with no problems at all. I can say with 100% confidence that the cylinder head did NOT break, causing the lobe of the camshaft to break off.
Feel free to give me a call if you would like to discuss this.
Trevor
Texas Speed & Performance
11-09-2006, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by racer7088
Sounds good Trevor as I didn't know that you guys had sent the heads all put together. I am planning on trying out some of your cylinder heads as well since they seem to be making very good power! I havent heard of anything like that with Comp either and I have personally used hundreds as well. A lifter didn't spin in the bore did it? I know people are always quick to blame the parts and rarely is it their fault.