ARE oil pump and oil consumption --->
03-02-2002, 01:07 AM
#21
LSxGuy widda 9sec Mustang
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Re: ARE oil pump and oil consumption ---> [quote]Originally posted by cantdrv65:
<strong>The more pressure you have the better..........The higher the oil pressure the harder the bearings are held in place.</strong><hr></blockquote>
There is a point where too much oil pressure can cause other problems. Engine oil has other jobs than just lubricating moving parts...It also absorbs heat from friction sources. If the oil pressure is too high, the oil won't have a chance to remove heat from the rod/main crankshaft bearings because the oil will be forced out too quickly, IMO 65-70 PSI is great oil pressure.
I don't consider this a factor until you reach over ~100 psi Think of it as a cooling system. If you remove the cooling system thermostat, your coolant temperature will drop right? Now is that due to the increase flow from the missing thermostat, or is it because the coolant doesn't absorb any engine heat as it is rapidly flowed through the engine? In this case removing the thermostat will actually cause the engine itself to run hotter even though the coolant is cooler, there is minimum heat transfer, same thing applies to oil flow.
As far as oil consumption is concerned, I can see where certain engines could use more oil with higher oil pressure. You will have more oil being splashed on the cylinder walls from the connecting rod bearings. Also the lifters may deliver too much oil to the rocker arms and could possibly squirt into the valve cover baffles and be sucked into the PCV system in certain cases.
The cost of a few quarts of extra oil by far is cheaper than buying a new engine due to a failed oil pump anytime.
<strong>The more pressure you have the better..........The higher the oil pressure the harder the bearings are held in place.</strong><hr></blockquote>
There is a point where too much oil pressure can cause other problems. Engine oil has other jobs than just lubricating moving parts...It also absorbs heat from friction sources. If the oil pressure is too high, the oil won't have a chance to remove heat from the rod/main crankshaft bearings because the oil will be forced out too quickly, IMO 65-70 PSI is great oil pressure.
I don't consider this a factor until you reach over ~100 psi Think of it as a cooling system. If you remove the cooling system thermostat, your coolant temperature will drop right? Now is that due to the increase flow from the missing thermostat, or is it because the coolant doesn't absorb any engine heat as it is rapidly flowed through the engine? In this case removing the thermostat will actually cause the engine itself to run hotter even though the coolant is cooler, there is minimum heat transfer, same thing applies to oil flow.
As far as oil consumption is concerned, I can see where certain engines could use more oil with higher oil pressure. You will have more oil being splashed on the cylinder walls from the connecting rod bearings. Also the lifters may deliver too much oil to the rocker arms and could possibly squirt into the valve cover baffles and be sucked into the PCV system in certain cases.
The cost of a few quarts of extra oil by far is cheaper than buying a new engine due to a failed oil pump anytime.
03-02-2002, 08:54 AM
#22
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Re: ARE oil pump and oil consumption ---> [quote]Originally posted by Joseph:
<strong>
There is a point where too much oil pressure can cause other problems. Engine oil has other jobs than just lubricating moving parts...It also absorbs heat from friction sources. If the oil pressure is too high, the oil won't have a chance to remove heat from the rod/main crankshaft bearings because the oil will be forced out too quickly, IMO 65-70 PSI is great oil pressure.
I don't consider this a factor until you reach over ~100 psi Think of it as a cooling system. If you remove the cooling system thermostat, your coolant temperature will drop right? Now is that due to the increase flow from the missing thermostat, or is it because the coolant doesn't absorb any engine heat as it is rapidly flowed through the engine? In this case removing the thermostat will actually cause the engine itself to run hotter even though the coolant is cooler, there is minimum heat transfer, same thing applies to oil flow.
As far as oil consumption is concerned, I can see where certain engines could use more oil with higher oil pressure. You will have more oil being splashed on the cylinder walls from the connecting rod bearings. Also the lifters may deliver too much oil to the rocker arms and could possibly squirt into the valve cover baffles and be sucked into the PCV system in certain cases.
The cost of a few quarts of extra oil by far is cheaper than buying a new engine due to a failed oil pump anytime.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, I agree with you on the thermostat removal, but there should be minimal heat at best in the rod and main bearings. After all the rods should never touch the crank when the engine is running. There is no metal to metal contact except for a very short time on startup. IMHO the higher the pressure the better, of course at a certain point oil pressure will overcome and blow out seals....Agreed up to 100 psi is great.
<strong>
There is a point where too much oil pressure can cause other problems. Engine oil has other jobs than just lubricating moving parts...It also absorbs heat from friction sources. If the oil pressure is too high, the oil won't have a chance to remove heat from the rod/main crankshaft bearings because the oil will be forced out too quickly, IMO 65-70 PSI is great oil pressure.
I don't consider this a factor until you reach over ~100 psi Think of it as a cooling system. If you remove the cooling system thermostat, your coolant temperature will drop right? Now is that due to the increase flow from the missing thermostat, or is it because the coolant doesn't absorb any engine heat as it is rapidly flowed through the engine? In this case removing the thermostat will actually cause the engine itself to run hotter even though the coolant is cooler, there is minimum heat transfer, same thing applies to oil flow.
As far as oil consumption is concerned, I can see where certain engines could use more oil with higher oil pressure. You will have more oil being splashed on the cylinder walls from the connecting rod bearings. Also the lifters may deliver too much oil to the rocker arms and could possibly squirt into the valve cover baffles and be sucked into the PCV system in certain cases.
The cost of a few quarts of extra oil by far is cheaper than buying a new engine due to a failed oil pump anytime.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, I agree with you on the thermostat removal, but there should be minimal heat at best in the rod and main bearings. After all the rods should never touch the crank when the engine is running. There is no metal to metal contact except for a very short time on startup. IMHO the higher the pressure the better, of course at a certain point oil pressure will overcome and blow out seals....Agreed up to 100 psi is great.
03-02-2002, 09:09 AM
#23
TECH Addict
Re: ARE oil pump and oil consumption ---> There is a lot of good info here, but nobody is mentioning horsepower loss to drive hi pressure pump. I believe in complete deburring and blueprint of stock pump to increase reliability of it. I dont necessarily agree with any higher oil pressure, how many LS1 engine failures are actually related to low oil pressure? Not to be confused with oil pump failure causing bearing problems.I would have to see proof of low oil pressure wear before i would rob engine of power to turn oil pump harder.Excess oil splashing around at hi rpm would aggravate oil control and promote detonation also.
03-02-2002, 09:44 AM
#24
TECH Addict
Re: ARE oil pump and oil consumption ---> BTW, oil pressure is not applied to any of the oil seals, so increasing pressure wouldnt affect oil seals. I would rather have replys aimed at my comments in the post above this one.Thanks.
03-02-2002, 03:19 PM
#25
TECH Addict
Re: ARE oil pump and oil consumption ---> Joseph, the resistance from bypass spring and piston is what sets oil pressure and the power to run the pump changes with this. Higher pressure will deliver more oil through out engine. This can aggravate oil control, which will lead to burning oil and detonation under hard driving conditions.Oil can foam from bad control which means it is aerated and this doesnt lubricate well. Opening up oil bypass passage will lower the resistance to drive oil pump and this is a good thing for power and cavitation of pump control. As far as cleaned up and ported pumps go, if this work is done pump will show less pressure but more volume, so if your gauge reads higher than stock pump pressure with worked pump than they really have bypass spring pressure increased. this will deliver a lot of oil and will take more power to drive, two bad things if overdone.
03-03-2002, 12:04 AM
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LSxGuy widda 9sec Mustang
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Re: ARE oil pump and oil consumption ---> The modified pumps while increasing pressure are in theory not pumping any more oil than a stock pump. Its just where the oil ends up thats changing, instead of the pressure regulator dumping the excess oil back into the crankcase more oil is forced through the oil passages (via recalibrated springs or shimming). HP loss is usually from increasing the oil volumn by using wider oil pump gears. If I had to guess, I would think that opening up the pump outlet would actually lessen the stress the oil pump has to work against?
Although increasing the oil pressure does have an affect on volumn I would think, I've always considered high pressure and high volumn two different things. IMO I don't think it would have a big loss on the HP side.
Although increasing the oil pressure does have an affect on volumn I would think, I've always considered high pressure and high volumn two different things. IMO I don't think it would have a big loss on the HP side.
03-03-2002, 07:02 PM
#27
TECH Addict
Re: ARE oil pump and oil consumption ---> I just wanted to refresh this subject in case any one didnt get a chance to agree or contest my response to this post. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
