RyanJ

remember this is a budget thread <img src="gr_tounge.gif" border="0"> no need to spend $800 on pistons unless your spraying or boosting a lot. by using stock rods and hyper's you save like $1100 over some Eagle rods and JE pistons.

just me

my heads may be "home" ported but will flow 300cfm <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
Hell of a lot of work on them though.Not your average home port job.
I am spending extra on the Total Seal gapless rings for a good seal and they are compatible with blower or nitrous.
They go for a tad over 200$.
The replacement piston I got from www.paceparts.com is the new coated ls6 design.

RyanJ

wanna port some heads for me? 300cfm at home <img src="gr_eek2.gif" border="0">

BALD RUNFLATS

Greetings

<img src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> I remeber hearing recently of the possibility of a crank manufacturer to produce some budget stroker cranks for the LS1.
stroker crank,$200-$300,clean-up hone+total seal rings,bearings,maybe new pistons,,,clean up the stock rods,,,a set of ported heads,headers,cam, and a 150shot nos = big cheap horsepower <img src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" border="0">

just me

sorry,headporting is a really nasty *** job.
It takes skill,patience and knowledge.
I am sorely lacking in the 2nd trait needed for this job. <img src="gr_sad.gif" border="0">
I won't touch a head for any other car but mine.
I can understand why port work cost so much!

RyanJ

oh well. im lacking all three. <img src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" border="0" alt="[hail]" /> Steve.

ChrisB

Everything looks good, except I would personally not use a total seal ring for any application. I have never personally used them on a LS1, but on LT1's, SBC's, etc. have. The theory sounds great, but I have yet to see it borne out in practice. You do get awesome leakdown's - but the motors never make any more power, and sometimes less. Also when people use gapless 1st and second rings there was a big issue with gasses being trapped between them causing ring flutter.

I really can't see using total seal in a n2o or power adder scenario though, it just seem like you are asking for trouble - but even in a NA scenario I don't think they are worth it. I would just stick with a high quality file to fit plasma moly ring - like the speed pro, or C&A.

Chris

just me

Chris,
my main reasoning for the gapless rings is this motor is not getting a pro hone job and the cylinders have some wear and I am retaining a standard bore size.
Installing a standard ring set with the gaps needed for the blower in these bores are going to open up even further with wear and be excessive IMO down the road.
The bore is a bit scored from the cracked piston.
Piston clearance is still fine though.From what I understand ring flutter is not of any concern until 7000rpm or so.
I plan on keeping a 6200rpm shiftpoint.
Even Blower Drive Service says the gapless rings work well.
Heck they have now been used in top fuel even.

Crazyquik

[quote]Originally posted by RyanJackson:
<strong>(with a truck block though) you could use some stock Esclade pistons (higher CR i think) and run some good rings and bearings. stock rods and a 3.9" cast cranks and still have that positive B/S ratio. thats a 392 right there.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

You'd want to check to make sure the pistons wouldn't be coming out the top of the block. I dont know the compression height of those pistons, but on a 3.9" stroke I'd check it out first.

Trevor @ Texas Speed & Perf.

iTrader: (3)

Using the Escalade pistons would raise your compression to 10:1 from the stock 9.4:1. Jason is installing these in his 6.0L. They're even teflon-coated like the '02 LS6 pistons. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> As for bearings, I was informed that GM is the only one currently manufacturing a bearing for the 6.0L. If that's true, you'd better make sure that the used 6.0L you get has a good crank and didn't damage it w/ a spun bearing, etc.
If I was looking to do a budget build-up, I'd get an offset ground crank from ARE for quite a bit less than what you could get even a cast stroker crank for, and then I'd go in with a .060" bore. As the saying goes, there's no replacement for displacement, and the added cubes will help out since you're not looking for an all-out head porting job.

faster67

[quote]Originally posted by ChrisB:
<strong>Everything looks good, except I would personally not use a total seal ring for any application. I have never personally used them on a LS1, but on LT1's, SBC's, etc. have. The theory sounds great, but I have yet to see it borne out in practice. You do get awesome leakdown's - but the motors never make any more power, and sometimes less. Also when people use gapless 1st and second rings there was a big issue with gasses being trapped between them causing ring flutter.

I really can't see using total seal in a n2o or power adder scenario though, it just seem like you are asking for trouble - but even in a NA scenario I don't think they are worth it. I would just stick with a high quality file to fit plasma moly ring - like the speed pro, or C&A.

Chris</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's my boy, Chris! I have to agree with The Brain. <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0"> I've used the Total Seal stuff and not been real impressed with it. I don't think the stock piston/ring package in an LS1 is very bad. I believe that most of the problems start when you use a power adder and start making some decent power. The stock hyper pistons make the stock endgap go to nothing pretty quick once you start burning a decent amount of air/fuel. The next thing you know you're picking pieces of your piston crown out of your muffler. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> Believe me, it wouldn't be the first time I busted a ring land or crown with a hyper. <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0"> I'm curious to see how the Total Seals will like a pressurized crankcase. The only times I've seen the Total Seals pick up over a standard ring package on the dyno is when a crankcase evacuation system is used.
For my budget LS1 buildup, I built an LS1 for my buddy here in Corpus. I started with a stock 2000 longblock with a thousand miles that had a little tick. $500 and I was on my way back to the shop with a motor that was complete from valve covers to oil pan. After I tore it down I found the "little tick" to be a hammered crank. It's ok though, just happened to have a good crank, rods and pistons laying around so I was set. I swapped the rods that spun bearings and unfortunately broke a piston in the process of pressing the rod off (damn brittle hyper!). So a crank, four rods and a piston later I'm ready to set the clearances and assemble. The stock piston/bore clearance left me wanting a little more so we knocked out an extra .001 just to be on the safe side. The ring gap was a hair tight so I fired up the ring filer and threw a little more clearance at them as well. The stock 2000 heads were sold and nearly paid for the whole longblock! Nearly a free shortblock <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> For the rest of the engine I used ARE heads, Lunati cam and LS6 intake and a few other goodies. Even though it doesn't sound cheap, I spent less on the whole thing than most spend on their topend alone. Total cash outlay was under $3,500 including installation. It was a buddy deal. <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
So far I'm very pleased with the results. The engine only has 2,500-3,000 miles on it and it seems to be exactly what I wanted. With the "big" 226/234 cam I was expecting (wanting) a little less bottom end torque but unfortunately it doesn't have any problem blowing the Hoosiers off on the street. With the cylinder head selection, cam selection and shortblock prep I was shooting for some impressive numbers on the bottle. The last thing on the list is the custom programming and then I'll be ready to go back to the track and do some tuning. Too many projects and not enough time.

RyanJ

[quote]Originally posted by Crazyquik:
<strong>

You'd want to check to make sure the pistons wouldn't be coming out the top of the block. I dont know the compression height of those pistons, but on a 3.9" stroke I'd check it out first.</strong><hr></blockquote>


yeah i know, i went back and looked at that after i wrote it. im an idiot.

Trevor, granted the offset job is cheaper than a new crank, but to increase the stroke from 3.62 to 3.71 id still have to have new pistons and all that. might as well just go a head with the big stroke. my emails have been acting up again...did you get the one i sent today?

Ryan

racer7088

""I started a thread about sticking SBC pistons in our blocks.""

I didn't see that one but the regular SBC valve reliefs aren't right for an LS1.

Matt98SS

I am interested in the same thing

GeorgeC has a budget motor I believe

I am kinda stuck between the iron and the aluminum block.

iron is heavier but you get a few more cubes and if you want to run a power adder its the way to go

aluminum is lighter and great for NA

-Joseph-

iTrader: (12)

Ryan, here's the plans for Jason's truck engine that we're building.

2001 Stock bore 6.0L truck block
LQ9 Escalade pistons for Std. bore - .020" available also. These do have the "special" skirt coating on them for reduced piston slap. They also appear to be a hypereutectic design made by Federal Mogul for GM. Kinda interesting feature for these GM pistons is they come with spirolock grooves and clips for using full floating piston pins, we're just pressing them on as the stockers are. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
2001+ aluminum LQ4/LQ9 cylinder heads. Supposed to be same as LS6 with matching bore size for the 4" bore.
We are using the stock 6.0L stroke crankshaft which is the same 3.62" as the LS1.
Stock length connecting rods, we have talked about using ARP rod bolts in them for insurance purposes. The top ring gap will be opened up a little since this engine will get some juice <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> .
I had someone from work contact Scat crankshafts (we're a dealer) and they said they will not make a cast LS1 stroker crankshaft as was rumored. Lunati is now making a stroker kit as they did with the stock bore 5.7L LS1, now it will be available for the 6.0L GM block and also the 7.0L C5R block bore sizes <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0"> <--this looks like a very good idea, no custom pistons for these 2 combinations. I heard the price was to be prices similiar to the 382cid LS1 kit.


LQ9 Piston: 88894241
LQ4/LQ9 Rings: 88894244
LQ4/LQ9 Heads: 12562319

GeorgeC

I guess I have somewhat of "budget" slightly better than stock bottom end. I had a clean-up hone of .005 done on the block, custom Wseco forged blower/N2O pistons, Moly file-fit rings, and had the entire rotating assembly balanced. If memory serves me correct, I have about $1800 in the shortblock. It's topped off with GTP heads and whatever my current "cam of the week" is (new one was installed last night). I consider it just slightly better than a stock rebuild, and that only because of the forged pistons (which I no longer benefit from since I'm NA now).

RyanJ

I started a thread about sticking SBC pistons in our blocks. Im currently researching this further. i know SBC 6.125" rods work. i also contacted Scat this afternoon <img src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" border="0" alt="[devil]" />

more budget thoughts. how far can stock rods go? hypereutectic pistons? cheap headwork-sure would be nice for some sponsors to give some deals on opened up truck heads for about a grand.... cylinder honing at home? re-degreeing the stock cam for advance/retard? ls6 cam (no flames...its cheap)? hotcam build-ups? 6.0 parts besides the block? 4.8L cranks for high rpm turbo or NA motors? c'mon we can come up with some fun stuff.


Ryan

[ December 11, 2001: Message edited by: RyanJackson ]

[ December 11, 2001: Message edited by: RyanJackson ]</p>

RobertZ

Well I dont know to much,But I do know I love to be real Cheap...Why?Well to tell you the truth I just dont have that kind of money to spend.Me and my buddy build a 355 sbc chevy motor.I home made ported his heads and got them resurfesd for I guess more Compression..Well thats what they said at the Machine shop. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> We used $200 60'over Trw SpeedPro pistons...And may I say they Hold up real good cosidering We Blasted them with a 200 shot and still going.Im constantly Arguing with my Friend about building a Cheap Irion Ls1 motor for (no2),But he always luagh's at me and says it cant be done unless you Have the money and If it its EFI its just to hard.He just doesn't understand the concept for Custum Programming.But As I was reading this post Im like Wow it can be done for real cheap.6.0 block with home port heads and 6.125 Sbc Rods,also maybe some Trw speedpro forged pistons...Now I can Afford that.Budget is great and Fluffy thinks so too <img src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" />

RyanJ

well damn, no scat cranks. son of a bi**h. guess its .060-over with an offset ground crank. 01 truck heads, stock rods, arp stuff, etc, etc.

Joesph, IM me when you get a chance.

Ryan

Plum Crazy Rob

iTrader: (3)

[quote]
originally posted by Joseph:
LQ9 Escalade pistons for Std. bore - .020" available also. These do have the "special" skirt coating on them for reduced piston slap. They also appear to be a hypereutectic design made by Federal Mogul for GM.
<hr></blockquote>

That's kind of interesting in itself! Previously, all the LT1 and LS1 pistons have been made by Mahle (German mfr, I think GM may have a financial stake in them as well). I wonder if Mahle got themselves on GM's **** list because of some of the piston issues? I'm not doubting this,
just surprised <img src="gr_eek2.gif" border="0">

Looks to me like the ~375 CID combo is the limit
of the current "budget" buildups - unless somebody
releases a cheap crank which looks unlikely <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">

[ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: Plum Crazy Rob ]</p>