Heads/Cam Suggestions (From the gurus preferably)
Thread Starter
TECH Regular
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 401
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From: DFW, Texas
Heads/Cam Suggestions (From the gurus preferably) I am going to get a set of 243 casting heads that are not CNC ported. I am wanting to put a pretty nice cam in. The car is a daily driver, but I am not very concerned about gas mileage. I just want it to be fun to drive. I was thinking about the MS4. That is probably the biggest I could go on those heads. I will be polishing the heads when I get them so they flow a little bit better.
Besides the MS4, what are some other radical cams that will get me to the 450 hp marker with these heads.
P.S. No I am not a dyno *****, but numbers do not lie. I want it to pull like a bat out of hell.
Besides the MS4, what are some other radical cams that will get me to the 450 hp marker with these heads.
P.S. No I am not a dyno *****, but numbers do not lie. I want it to pull like a bat out of hell.
The MS4 is a maximum duty cam that requires serious attention to detail with the valvetrain (LSK lobes). To get close to 450 rwhp, you'll need a FAST 90 intake, long tube headers with an exhaust with absolutely no back pressure, UD pulley, 160 thermostat, and a razor sharp tune. Valvetrain will require the best dual springs you can buy, 7.450" pushrods (with unmilled heads), Ti retainers, new timing chain and ported oil pump.
Other cams that will get you to 450 cam only? There aren't many:
T-rex (242/248 110LSA)
MS3
G5X-4
Other cams that will get you to 450 cam only? There aren't many:
T-rex (242/248 110LSA)
MS3
G5X-4
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
Non guru opionion, but ill add anyway: The MS4 is a big *** cam. It will make a ton up high, but will leave you wishing you had more down low while daily driving it. Youll spend much more time fighting to drive the car than you will enjoying the 7000+ rpm monster.
IMO you could gain a lot more streetability and low end and only have to give up 10 or so HP up top. Big cams make big numbers but at insane RPMs. Bigger cams can actually feel much slower driving around from day to day.
I feel the magic stick, in all its flavors, is a niche cam for those who know exactly what they want. Its not a good choice for a first time cammer who's attracted to the big numbers.
IMO you could gain a lot more streetability and low end and only have to give up 10 or so HP up top. Big cams make big numbers but at insane RPMs. Bigger cams can actually feel much slower driving around from day to day.
I feel the magic stick, in all its flavors, is a niche cam for those who know exactly what they want. Its not a good choice for a first time cammer who's attracted to the big numbers.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Mar 2005
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From: DFW, Texas
This will be my fourth cam/head install. You don't think some polished 243s will do nothing for my performance?
I have longtubes with no cats and no muffler.
Again, I could care less about the high number, I really want it to pull hard.
I won't be taking it over 6k rpms.
This is my current set up:
5.3L Ported/Polished heads milled 0.030 with 2.02"/1.575" valves.
TSP 224/224 .581"/.581" 110 LSA
Longtubes
Tuned by RPM
Comp .918 Springs
Chromoly 7.4" Pushrods
I still do not understand how a 160 degree t-stat will help with power. The current t-stat was installed because that is the most efficient temperature the engine will run at. Although I will take Patrick's advice with a lot more than a grain of salt because I have read your posts and you definitely know your ****. I guess I just do not understand it yet.
I have longtubes with no cats and no muffler.
Again, I could care less about the high number, I really want it to pull hard.
I won't be taking it over 6k rpms.
This is my current set up:
5.3L Ported/Polished heads milled 0.030 with 2.02"/1.575" valves.
TSP 224/224 .581"/.581" 110 LSA
Longtubes
Tuned by RPM
Comp .918 Springs
Chromoly 7.4" Pushrods
I still do not understand how a 160 degree t-stat will help with power. The current t-stat was installed because that is the most efficient temperature the engine will run at. Although I will take Patrick's advice with a lot more than a grain of salt because I have read your posts and you definitely know your ****. I guess I just do not understand it yet.
Having an MS4 myself, I can tell you that the car is not a Pain to drive. WIth the correct tune. My wife handles the car with no problems. I didnt mind sacrificing lower numbers for higher ones. I dont race stoplight to stoplight around town. If I race, I go to the track where I can use that 7000 RPMs. But look at my sig. Without the 90/90 and pulley and other things, you wont see 450 with the MS4. But then again, each car is differnet. Just my .02
Well, the magic stick is definately not what you want if youre not gonna spin it over 6000. Why spinning so low? Even that 224 you have now needs to go past 6000.
Look for a cam with a max of low to mid 230's duration, preferably lower even, tight LSA (110) and atleast 2 or maybe 4 degrees advance to get your powerband as low as you can. Youll still have to spin higher than 6000 but itll get you about as low as you can. Use a thinner gasket and mill your heads to try and get around 8.6 - 8.7 DCR and that will help get your torque down low. Pay attention to P to V clearance though.
Those heads are a nice improvement over stock. I assume this isnt the same car as your 5.3L heads + 224 cam.
Look for a cam with a max of low to mid 230's duration, preferably lower even, tight LSA (110) and atleast 2 or maybe 4 degrees advance to get your powerband as low as you can. Youll still have to spin higher than 6000 but itll get you about as low as you can. Use a thinner gasket and mill your heads to try and get around 8.6 - 8.7 DCR and that will help get your torque down low. Pay attention to P to V clearance though.
Those heads are a nice improvement over stock. I assume this isnt the same car as your 5.3L heads + 224 cam.
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Originally Posted by adillhoff
I won't be taking it over 6k rpms.
Even with my relatively mild setup, my car still peaks at 6400 and only loses 5rwhp at 6800. Spin your combo on up a little more and see what you think. If it's not enough, and you get a bigger cam, get ready to set your shift-lite to 6700+
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Joined: Mar 2005
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From: DFW, Texas
The reason I do not want to go over 6k is because my clutch sinks in at 5.5k and if I take it any higher than that I won't be able to shift because the clutch will be hitting the floor. What is a safe RPM for those stock rods bolts? I would be willing to take it higher, but am just afraid about hurting something major.
The 5.3L with the 224 cam is on my current car and I want to do the swap on that car.
EDIT: Just for reference, my 5.3L + 224 set up put down 410 @ 6000 and 390 lb-ft torque @ 5100.
EDIT2: The MS4 actually might be good for me if I can fix my clutch problem and raise my rev limit. I want something that pulls really hard up top. I like to go fast.
The 5.3L with the 224 cam is on my current car and I want to do the swap on that car.
EDIT: Just for reference, my 5.3L + 224 set up put down 410 @ 6000 and 390 lb-ft torque @ 5100.
EDIT2: The MS4 actually might be good for me if I can fix my clutch problem and raise my rev limit. I want something that pulls really hard up top. I like to go fast.
Last edited by adillhoff; Dec 10, 2006 at 03:10 PM.
dude, your clutch is probably sticking to the floor because its slipping. More power will only exacerbate the issue. I highly suggest you cheange out your clutch and fix the problem, not try and design a head and cam swap around the issue!!!
If you want more power, I suggest figuring out and fixing your clutch issues. That in itself will make the car faster in the fact that you'll be able to use the power that is already available.
If you want to stay under 6000RPMs anyways, going with a bigger cam will more than likely slow you down. Something without a ton of lift will be best in your situation either since you aren't going to be running ported heads.
If you want to stay under 6000RPMs anyways, going with a bigger cam will more than likely slow you down. Something without a ton of lift will be best in your situation either since you aren't going to be running ported heads.
Originally Posted by adillhoff
This will be my fourth cam/head install. You don't think some polished 243s will do nothing for my performance?
I have longtubes with no cats and no muffler.
Again, I could care less about the high number, I really want it to pull hard.
I won't be taking it over 6k rpms.
This is my current set up:
5.3L Ported/Polished heads milled 0.030 with 2.02"/1.575" valves.
TSP 224/224 .581"/.581" 110 LSA
Longtubes
Tuned by RPM
Comp .918 Springs
Chromoly 7.4" Pushrods
I still do not understand how a 160 degree t-stat will help with power. The current t-stat was installed because that is the most efficient temperature the engine will run at. Although I will take Patrick's advice with a lot more than a grain of salt because I have read your posts and you definitely know your ****. I guess I just do not understand it yet.
I have longtubes with no cats and no muffler.
Again, I could care less about the high number, I really want it to pull hard.
I won't be taking it over 6k rpms.
This is my current set up:
5.3L Ported/Polished heads milled 0.030 with 2.02"/1.575" valves.
TSP 224/224 .581"/.581" 110 LSA
Longtubes
Tuned by RPM
Comp .918 Springs
Chromoly 7.4" Pushrods
I still do not understand how a 160 degree t-stat will help with power. The current t-stat was installed because that is the most efficient temperature the engine will run at. Although I will take Patrick's advice with a lot more than a grain of salt because I have read your posts and you definitely know your ****. I guess I just do not understand it yet.
hope that helped
I daily drive my MS4 and I drive a 3900 Lb GOAT. The car drives perfactly. A little loss down low, and by down low I mean 2000 RPM. Actually I can still drive the car normally and shift below 2000 RPM. The only noticeable difference is how low I can go with the RPMs during cruise. I definately does not like to cruise in any gear below 1500 RPM. It starts to surge and jerk the car. The MS4 looks like a monster on paper but with an awesome tune (Formato did mine) drives like a dream.
MS4 64cc .055 10.61:1 scr 7.84:1 dcr
----------.040 11.02:1 scr 8.13:1 dcr
MS4 67cc .055 10.23:1 scr 7.57:1 dcr
----------.040 10.61:1 scr 7.84:1 dcr
Flycut the pistons 58cc .040 cometic 12:1 scr 8.8:1 dcr
90/90
that should hit 450rwhp
----------.040 11.02:1 scr 8.13:1 dcr
MS4 67cc .055 10.23:1 scr 7.57:1 dcr
----------.040 10.61:1 scr 7.84:1 dcr
Flycut the pistons 58cc .040 cometic 12:1 scr 8.8:1 dcr
90/90
that should hit 450rwhp
Last edited by cws T/A; Dec 11, 2006 at 01:20 AM.
Originally Posted by adillhoff
The clutch and tranny is about 10k miles old. The problem, I think, is with the slave cylinder.
So I am building a street set up.
I will be porting/polishing the heads myself.
So I am building a street set up.
I will be porting/polishing the heads myself.