The Dragon

iTrader: (6)

[quote]Originally posted by LS1derfull:
<strong>Designing and building an engine that requires major boost to make impressive power is like throwing in the towel! That doesn't deserve respect, and it doesn't push technology forward either! SUPRA in JAPANESE means boring! <img src="graemlins/gr_barf.gif" border="0" alt="[barf]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Hey . . . can ya tell us how ya really feel? <img src="gr_tounge.gif" border="0">

EddyZ28

[quote]Originally posted by Quickin:
<strong>I know this isn't an answer to your question, but do you realize that LS1's with much, much less RWHP N/A than those 700-800RWHP TT Supras get whipped in the 1/4 mile by the LS1's.
HP doesn't mean ****.

Thats what I think is kind of weird. The TT Supras seem to be stuck in the 11's for the most part.

Also, we have some TT LS1's with RWHP in the 600's and they too are slower than the N/A LS1's which put out only 470-550 RWHP.

Strange!</strong><hr></blockquote>


Its called Torque my man. Good old Torque rules the street. It doesn't matter how much potential your car has, the 1/4 is only so long. The car that makes their power the quickest will win ever time.

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

[quote]Originally posted by BLK 98WS6:
<strong>I will stick to the V8s as provided by GM, though....</strong><hr></blockquote>Same here <img src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> ....and maybe one of the V10s as provided by Dodge also. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">

NoOne

Just gotta buy one of each <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">

I think the Supra is an awesome car, the power output the motor can take is crazy from the showroom.

I'll have one in the future, I think it will be looked back upon as one of the first true Foreign muscle cars in the fact you can buy one cheap, mod it cheap, and go fast.

From what I have seen they need a new clutch, everything else just handles the power.

11 Bravo

iTrader: (3)

So the high hp Supras don't run 8's in the 1/2. There is more to racing than 1 quarter of a mile to some. We all know what the fastest Supras can do on the highway. They are no freakin joke. Imagine what a reliable 700-800+hp turbocharged LS1 could do on the highway. It's mind boggling. My car will be like that someday, but hopefully before I'm 40, and I'm 34 now <img src="gr_tounge.gif" border="0">

Rob Raymer

[quote]Originally posted by DevilBird:
<strong> However, it doesn't mean that since they're pushin out 800rwhp that they are fast in the quarter mile. HP numbers don't mean **** unless you can can apply it correctly and show you can down the track.
Miah</strong><hr></blockquote>

Very true. However, I think SW has shown that it can be applied correctly. Didn't he go 9.5x @ 153 or something? And to my understanding, it's a BONE STOCK engine with bolt-ons??? Not to mention, the guy also has LS1's. So he CAN'T be that bad of a guy. Right? <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">

I'm trying to play Devil's Advocate here. There are also plenty of high HP LS1's that aren't running the times either. Hell, to be honest, I'm pretty disappointed with our 707rwhp/9.94 pass. But it takes time to dial everything in "correctly". Have you forgotten how long it took to get a Turbo V6 Buick into the 9's? And now, 9's are so common on Turbo Buicks that we barely notice them anymore!

I have to keep an open mind and give credit where credit is due. I think NoOne hit the nail on the head. IMHO.

flynbludream

iTrader: (1)

SW ran a 9.83@153 or something close to that, however he is very much the exception to the rule. I don't think that there is another 6 speed supra CONSISTENTLY within .5 seconds or 10 mph of him. Some of the bad boys with 700+ rwhp clock anywhere from mid 10's to mid 14's. You have to launch the 6 speed cars at 6k+ rpms to get them off the line, the autos are faster with the right torque converters. Big dyno #'s look impressive on the net, but I'd rather not have to get my car past 5000rpms to get more than 150 hp.

Damn Rob, I think just about everyone here is impressed with what you have done with your camaro but you. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="graemlins/z06.gif" border="0" alt="[Z06 Corvette]" />

NoOne

For that matter you can't get a LS1 TT with a 6 speed to be consistent either.

I've learned 6 speed turbo cars have other things better suited to them.

I come close to 700 crank HP and only run low 11's, never really shook the car out, had a good pass them ran into master cylinder problems but it looks like I'll be beating it into the ground to get 10.80's out of it, its not like the power isn't there, its just the nature of a manual turbo car without a 2 step.

Supertrapped

[quote]Originally posted by Rob Raymer:
<strong>

Very true. However, I think SW has shown that it can be applied correctly. Didn't he go 9.5x @ 153 or something? And to my understanding, it's a BONE STOCK engine with bolt-ons??? Not to mention, the guy also has LS1's. So he CAN'T be that bad of a guy. Right? <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> </strong><hr></blockquote>

I didn't say ALL people <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> . And yes.....he's cool in my book either way of what he drives. He is a very impressive racer with VERY impressive machines <img src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" border="0">

btw....I met you here in Tulsa last year at the track. You were havin Ed tune your car, but you guys didn't get anything out of the tuning at the time. You should come down again. One of our friends Bo bought the track in July. He's making it really nice now and its now an official IHRA track <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">

[ January 14, 2002: Message edited by: DevilBird ]</p>

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

[quote]Originally posted by NoOne:
<strong>in the fact you can buy one cheap, mod it cheap, and go fast.
</strong><hr></blockquote>Mod it relatively cheaply maybe but buy it cheap? New they were up to nearly $46k and used ones are still going for big money. <img src="gr_eek2.gif" border="0"> But the idea of going low 12s for under $1500.00 in mods is a plus. And SWs impressive 9s were done on a 75 shot as well I think. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">

racer7088

I don't think any of these 800 rwhp Supras would last too long on the highway at that kind of boost. These are race cars and don't make these numbers on pump gas either. They also blow up quite often as well from the many I've been around. With pump gas they aren't quite as impressive but they are doing it with only a 3 liter engine. The impressive thing though is that they come with most of the stuff to go almost that fast from the factory. <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[Burnout]" />

LS1derfull

NO ONE, not to start a flame or anything but,
you said you have close to 700hp and your shooting for 10.80's? Why turbocharge vehicle with that expense when Raughhammer is going for 10.50's with way less power than that, with a streetable head/cam motor? Doesnt sound like turbo power is very useable or am i missing something?

NoOne

Yep, around 680hp give or take a few, 601/617 at the wheels.

Here is the thing, I like driving a stick, ALOT. I ran the same ET with heads/cam and a ~90rwhp shot of N20 2 years ago as I do now.

I loved driving the car the way it felt on N20 and went through a **** load of N20 per week, easily 60 bux worth a week.

I thought of doing one of 2 things, rebuilting the short block as a 396 w/ a 200 shot or building a superstout 346 and a 300+ shot to try to run low 10's, maybe high 9's.

Then the turbo's came along and it sounded more of what I was looking for, on demand power. I equated the power I made with N20 to power made with turbo's, fiquire an extra hundred horsepower should put me solidly into the 10's, well not quite.

If you want a fast ET turbo car you have to get an automatic, at least without a 2 step, otherwise you just have to enjoy driving the car the way it is.

I have a 8.75:1 motor, monster heads, and a decent sized cam, without the turbo's I'd be lucky to make 320rwhp I bet. So I sit at the line, run it to 5000rpm and drop the clutch, the car goes, usually bogs a little, then the boost comes on softly and it doesn't 60', I bet I don't make decent boost till half way through the 60, which doesn't do squat for me

On the other hand, last setup I was making 460 on the motor alone, I'd let the clutch go, hook and hit the spray, instant 550ft lbs and the car took off like mad.

Different setups, one with much more power than the other, but the same results.

The difference is an auto. Consider Rob's car, there was a time when he was making the same power as me, on the exact same engine setup, I think he went 10.40's on that setup, identical engine and power, just a single vs the twins. Difference is a auto. He can set the transbrake, build 15lbs of boost and launch with 550ft lbs, while I launch with ~300, thats not much to motivate a 4000lb car.

I've stayed away from an auto, all the fast guys use them, their torque converters are set to provide the most amount of torque right at the start, while mine is the opposite.

But on the freeway or the street its an absolute blast to drive, you have no idea.

I won't give that up, I like driving the car too much. I've considered an auto alot, several here have guessed low-mid 10's with just an auto, low 10's with an auto and a Trans brake, but it takes the fun out of the car for me.

Harlan's 2 step should help out if I get one, that will let me built boost on the line and 60' better.

10.80's the way the car is setup right now would be on a good day, at least a 1.65 60', my best now is a 1.77 60'(the list has it wrong).

I only made 2 passes on slicks, first one I snapped the shaft, second one it went 11.21, then the master crapped, master/slave problems prevented it from going back to the track for the year.

So hopefully with practice I'll get a little better, but without a 2 step or an auto 10.80's is about right.

So your not missing something. Raugh's car if I remember right is lightweight too, I'm turning 127 in a 4079 lb car, not a ~3300lb car, big big difference. I drive it to the track, put ET's on the back and go.

While others have added power and removed weight I just keep adding both <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">

But when those turbo's spool up on the freeway its unbelievable. Also when I rebuilt the car I left no stone unturned, everything was replaced for reliable 600rwhp daily driven, only thing I had issues with was my original master cylinder which has now been replaced. So it was exspensive but when I'm driving it, its worth every penny.

[ January 14, 2002: Message edited by: NoOne ]</p>

fws98ws6tt

noone we got a twin tbo 6speed,all i will tell you is the pistons will not hold up on a stock ls1 .you no every thing has to right on the money it cost us 4500.to learn that( the first one ate it self).the jap cars will run and we are the ones that is getting paid back for getting laid back. michael

Rob Bonemarte

Give it another year before you see some serious LS1 power on the streets (1000 hp).

The engineering department here at GM really screwed up on the head bolt length. I won't go into any more detail, but at least two shops know what I am talking about and have fixed the head lifting problem.

It is not rocket science and shouldn't be treated as such. I am not going to say just to let them captilize on their common sense for the time being.

Rob

[ January 14, 2002: Message edited by: Rob Bonemarte ]</p>

11 Bravo

iTrader: (3)

[quote]Originally posted by Rob Bonemarte:
<strong>Give it another year before you see some serious LS1 power on the streets (1000 hp).

The engineering department here at GM really screwed up on the head bolt length. I won't go into any more detail, but at least two shops know what I am talking about and have fixed the head lifting problem.

It is not rocket science and shouldn't be treated as such. I am not going to say just to let them captilize on their common sense for the time being.

Rob

[ January 14, 2002: Message edited by: Rob Bonemarte ]</strong><hr></blockquote>


So who has fixed the head lifting problem? And how did they do it? That is, like, a major deal. If that problem is fixed then high boost TT LS1's can go to a higher level than anyone. Is this top secret information or something?

NoOne

fws98ws6tt,

I'm running a built iron block LS1, forged pistons and the whole bit.

As far as the head lifting issue, I do not think that any of the TT cars are having a head issue. Rob started lifting heads at around 620rwhp I think, maybe a little more.

I don't know if the 720rwhp car TT car ARE built had a head lifting issue or not.

IndyZ28

[quote]Originally posted by Quickin:
<strong>Also, we have some TT LS1's with RWHP in the 600's and they too are slower than the N/A LS1's which put out only 470-550 RWHP.

Strange!</strong><hr></blockquote>

While this is true, there are many factors to consider. Harlan for example puts down 570hp & 615tq while I know of a 382ci Z that puts down around 430hp that is a full 1/2 sec faster in the 1/4. Why? Because Harlan is a M6 and the Z is an auto w/race convertor. Manual shift turbo cars do not build boost on the starting line because there is no load on the engine. This in effect causes the car to launch off of the horsepower of the engine only until the turbo's spool up (around 330hp in Harlan's case). Harlan pulls 1.7's in the 60', so do I n/a. After that it is all over though with his best of 10.97 and my best of 12.09. This is all on a modified stage one kit that is only supposed to put down around 450rwhp too. Throw an auto in the mix launching off boost and all of a sudden your solidly in the mid ten's. Not bad for a motor that's never had the valve covers off.

Also it is way cheaper to buy a stripper A4 f-bod, buy all the bolt-ons, do heads/cam/convertor and run fast then it is to buy a stripper A4/M6 f-bod, pull the motor, change the compression ratio and do heads/cam/convertor or clutch and run fast. Granted you don't have to buy all the bolt ons for a turbo kit because it comes with it's own special induction and exhaust manifolds, but you can't tell me that there is $4000 of bolt-ons for our cars. Chassis, suspension and exhast system (header back or turbo back) not included because it is the same either route you go.

Speed Demon

iTrader: (14)

This post has turned up some very good information.

I have to agree with NoOne about the fun to drive aspect of owning six speed. I drive my T/A just about everyday and I am more concerned with how it performs on the street than how quick it will run the quarter mile.

I don't intend to condone street racing, but some of these videos at this link are "awesome".

Check out the "Walser" Supra walking away from a few sport bikes.
http://www.toyturbo.com/main/media/supra/

That's impressive!

blackhawk2000

[quote]Originally posted by fws98ws6tt:
<strong>noone we got a twin tbo 6speed,all i will tell you is the pistons will not hold up on a stock ls1 .you no every thing has to right on the money it cost us 4500.to learn that( the first one ate it self).the jap cars will run and we are the ones that is getting paid back for getting laid back. michael</strong><hr></blockquote>

I disagree. If I remember correctly you had a stock engine, and higher than recomended boost levels(per Dave Inall). Your tuning, and/or fuel system was not up to the task. Detonation ate your engine.