Fuel system thoughts...
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TECH Junkie
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,987
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From: Melbourne, FL
Fuel system thoughts... Since all of my stock plastic and rubber fuel lines, and associated wiring was burned up pretty bad, I'll have a lot of replacing/rewiring to do. I've been thinking about revamping the entire fuel system because I think it would be just as easy at this point, since a lot of stuff has to be replaced/repaired anyway. I'm still in the early stages of planning everything, as I have yet to even bring my car home yet (still waiting to get everything settled with the insurance company).
What do you guys think of this idea...
Sandblast/repaint stock fuel tank (I don't think fitting a fuel cell would be worthwhile at this point), and install a sump in the tank.
Aeromotive EFI fuel pump
Aeromotive fuel filter
#10AN hard line & braided line to the engine compartment
Aeromotive billet regulator
#6AN return line to the tank
Billet fuel rails
I think I can pull that off for a little over $1000 or so. The Aeromotive pump (supposedly good for 1000hp) is probably overkill, but I haven't seen any smaller stand-alone inline pumps that look like they'd be up to the task. With limited extended street driving, I think the Aeromotive pump would live a long life, and I'd have a fuel system capable of handling anything I'd ever hope to toss at it.
I may upgrade the injectors as well, as they're still stock '98 injectors.
This is just a rough idea for now, but shoot me some opinions anyway (I'm bored, since I have no car to play with)
What do you guys think of this idea...
Sandblast/repaint stock fuel tank (I don't think fitting a fuel cell would be worthwhile at this point), and install a sump in the tank.
Aeromotive EFI fuel pump
Aeromotive fuel filter
#10AN hard line & braided line to the engine compartment
Aeromotive billet regulator
#6AN return line to the tank
Billet fuel rails
I think I can pull that off for a little over $1000 or so. The Aeromotive pump (supposedly good for 1000hp) is probably overkill, but I haven't seen any smaller stand-alone inline pumps that look like they'd be up to the task. With limited extended street driving, I think the Aeromotive pump would live a long life, and I'd have a fuel system capable of handling anything I'd ever hope to toss at it.
I may upgrade the injectors as well, as they're still stock '98 injectors.
This is just a rough idea for now, but shoot me some opinions anyway (I'm bored, since I have no car to play with)
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 306
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From: Dallas, TX
Re: Fuel system thoughts... That sounds like a good plan <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> On the few LS1's that I have helped put full Aeromotive fuel systems on, we used 8 to the front and 6 for the return.............
Looks like you are headed in the right direction from everything else you listed.
Looks like you are headed in the right direction from everything else you listed.
Thread Starter
TECH Junkie
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,987
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From: Melbourne, FL
Re: Fuel system thoughts... Thanks, GS WS6...
I just did some reading on past threads (the "search" feature comes in handy <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> ).
I don't have any particular RWHP figures I'm shooting for, but I will be looking for 10.40's-10.50's when the car gets put back together this time.
Shoot me fuel system suggestions, remembering that I'll pretty much be starting from scratch as my junk's burned up pretty bad...
Reading some of the past threads concerning fuel system stuff, I feel it's probably a good idea to upgrade injectors as well... What size, 30 or 36#'s?
Looks like #8AN line would probably be the "preferred" size fuel line. Should I run a crossover on the rails, or use both outputs from the regulator to feed the rails? Help me with the layout of all this stuff...
I just did some reading on past threads (the "search" feature comes in handy <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> ).
I don't have any particular RWHP figures I'm shooting for, but I will be looking for 10.40's-10.50's when the car gets put back together this time.
Shoot me fuel system suggestions, remembering that I'll pretty much be starting from scratch as my junk's burned up pretty bad...
Reading some of the past threads concerning fuel system stuff, I feel it's probably a good idea to upgrade injectors as well... What size, 30 or 36#'s?
Looks like #8AN line would probably be the "preferred" size fuel line. Should I run a crossover on the rails, or use both outputs from the regulator to feed the rails? Help me with the layout of all this stuff...
Re: Fuel system thoughts... I would use the 30lb matched injectors for stock cube NA use. Maybe solid roller turning 7200+ rpm you would need more.
I had some tuning issues getting 36lb injectors dialed in using a combination of mail order tuning and my MAFT. The issues were probably solvable if the tuning shop was close by or if LS1 edit had been available.
Good luck. Killer fuel system looking for a little nitrous to keep it company? <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
I had some tuning issues getting 36lb injectors dialed in using a combination of mail order tuning and my MAFT. The issues were probably solvable if the tuning shop was close by or if LS1 edit had been available.
Good luck. Killer fuel system looking for a little nitrous to keep it company? <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
TECH Resident
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 929
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From: NC
Re: Fuel system thoughts... That fuel setup should be fine and allow for future upgrades. Thats about the run of the mill 9 second setup that most stangs are using. Wont have to worry about melting plastic lines anymore <img src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Thread Starter
TECH Junkie
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,987
Likes: 0
From: Melbourne, FL
Re: Fuel system thoughts... [quote]Originally posted by The BeaSSt:
<strong>You can use a bulkhead fitting on the tank, it comes complete with a nut & sealing washer, worked out pretty well.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I've seen/heard of folks just doing this instead of welding a sump into the tank. I'll probably just go that route since it would be a lot easier than installing a sump. Thanks for the suggestion, Dave.
<strong>You can use a bulkhead fitting on the tank, it comes complete with a nut & sealing washer, worked out pretty well.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I've seen/heard of folks just doing this instead of welding a sump into the tank. I'll probably just go that route since it would be a lot easier than installing a sump. Thanks for the suggestion, Dave.
Thread Starter
TECH Junkie
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,987
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From: Melbourne, FL
Re: Fuel system thoughts... [quote]Originally posted by Ragtop 99:
<strong>I would use the 30lb matched injectors for stock cube NA use. Maybe solid roller turning 7200+ rpm you would need more.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'll probably stay hydraulic, but will probably be turning 7100-7200rpm. I don't want to be right "on the edge," but if the stock injectors have lasted me to now, some high quality 30# matched injectors would probably be fine.
[quote]<strong>Good luck. Killer fuel system looking for a little nitrous to keep it company? <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0"> </strong><hr></blockquote>
No way! Nothing against N2O, but this shortblock will be put together with NA performance in mind, ie very tight ring gaps, low tension oil rings, etc... Any other little tricks I can find will be incorporated as well...
<strong>I would use the 30lb matched injectors for stock cube NA use. Maybe solid roller turning 7200+ rpm you would need more.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'll probably stay hydraulic, but will probably be turning 7100-7200rpm. I don't want to be right "on the edge," but if the stock injectors have lasted me to now, some high quality 30# matched injectors would probably be fine.
[quote]<strong>Good luck. Killer fuel system looking for a little nitrous to keep it company? <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0"> </strong><hr></blockquote>
No way! Nothing against N2O, but this shortblock will be put together with NA performance in mind, ie very tight ring gaps, low tension oil rings, etc... Any other little tricks I can find will be incorporated as well...
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TECH Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,341
Likes: 1
Re: Fuel system thoughts... I would call ARE and ask about their setups. They sell them in different kits and you can go from mild to wild. I think a good intank Walbro 340 with custom wiring harness would work great with bigger lines.
Cheers,
Chris
ARE #: 905.420.9195
Cheers,
Chris
ARE #: 905.420.9195
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Re: Fuel system thoughts... In case you are interested www.ls1speed.com can get you a custom made fuel tank made by a company that makes intercoolers. I saw one at their shop last week. No weight savings I would say. They also sell billet fuel rails.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,055
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From: Chi-Town
Re: Fuel system thoughts... twin intank fuel pumps with STOCK LINES will support into the mid 9s on motor
i mean mikey was using them to go mid 9s on nitrous and nitrous fuel systems demand more as we all know
i mean mikey was using them to go mid 9s on nitrous and nitrous fuel systems demand more as we all know
Re: Fuel system thoughts... Sounds familiar: www.turbo-ws6.com/fuel.html
I just bought a sump for mine. I did the bulkhead fitting, but it has always leaked no matter what I've done to try to seal it up.
The Aeromotive pump is good, but the rating is actually for a 45psi system I think, so more like 700hp for our cars. I use the Aetomotive fuel pump controller on mine. Allows me to run the pump at partial voltage on the street, and toggle it up for track use.
Let me know if you have questions George.
I just bought a sump for mine. I did the bulkhead fitting, but it has always leaked no matter what I've done to try to seal it up.
The Aeromotive pump is good, but the rating is actually for a 45psi system I think, so more like 700hp for our cars. I use the Aetomotive fuel pump controller on mine. Allows me to run the pump at partial voltage on the street, and toggle it up for track use.
Let me know if you have questions George.
Re: Fuel system thoughts... That's about what i'm doing George <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
I got the first round of fittings and my Comp. Eng. sump yesterday. I pick up the new steel tank on friday.
Plan is this
98 steel tank, sumped w/ dual -8AN pickups
2 -8AN to -12AN y-block
Aeromotive filer
Aero. Pro-Series pump, the new monster w/ -12AN in and out
-10AN braided to 5/8 hardline to the engine
-10AN to dual -8AN y-block
-8AN feed to each rail
-8AN out from each rail to Aero. Reg
Still not sure if i'm using the Pro Series Reg, or the big EFI reg. I need to check on the return flow numbers for each regulator.
-10AN return from the reg
5/8 hard line return to -10AN braided into the top of the tank w/ modified hanger assembly.
this is w/ 72 lb/hr injectors <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
Now before everyone jumps down my **** for going way over kill check this out.
The goal is close to 900 at the motor on at least 15 psi. W/ 72's i'm in the duty cylce range i want, and a base pressure of 45 psi. under boost i need about 500 lb/hr of fuel at 60 psi. The middle pump from Aero is on the edge at 12V there, no room to grow. I don't want to worry about boosting the pump voltage, running out of injectors, or having a second pump not kick in.
I want a single pump that will flow what i need, when i need it, and leave me room to bump the pressure up if i need more <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
The monster pump will do that, but it's a fire hose at idle pressures, thus the monster regulator and -10AN return.
Bigger is better, so why not <img src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" border="0" alt="[hail]" />
I got the first round of fittings and my Comp. Eng. sump yesterday. I pick up the new steel tank on friday.
Plan is this
98 steel tank, sumped w/ dual -8AN pickups
2 -8AN to -12AN y-block
Aeromotive filer
Aero. Pro-Series pump, the new monster w/ -12AN in and out
-10AN braided to 5/8 hardline to the engine
-10AN to dual -8AN y-block
-8AN feed to each rail
-8AN out from each rail to Aero. Reg
Still not sure if i'm using the Pro Series Reg, or the big EFI reg. I need to check on the return flow numbers for each regulator.
-10AN return from the reg
5/8 hard line return to -10AN braided into the top of the tank w/ modified hanger assembly.
this is w/ 72 lb/hr injectors <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
Now before everyone jumps down my **** for going way over kill check this out.
The goal is close to 900 at the motor on at least 15 psi. W/ 72's i'm in the duty cylce range i want, and a base pressure of 45 psi. under boost i need about 500 lb/hr of fuel at 60 psi. The middle pump from Aero is on the edge at 12V there, no room to grow. I don't want to worry about boosting the pump voltage, running out of injectors, or having a second pump not kick in.
I want a single pump that will flow what i need, when i need it, and leave me room to bump the pressure up if i need more <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
The monster pump will do that, but it's a fire hose at idle pressures, thus the monster regulator and -10AN return.
Bigger is better, so why not <img src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" border="0" alt="[hail]" />
Thread Starter
TECH Junkie
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,987
Likes: 0
From: Melbourne, FL
Re: Fuel system thoughts... Hmmm, to sump or not to sump??? What does a new '98 fuel tank cost? If I decide to install a sump, I'd feel better about using a new tank that's never had fuel in it. I'm sick of fire <img src="gr_emb.gif" border="0">
Harlan, your setup sounds almost exactly like what I'm leaning towards, only scaled down a tad on this end (smaller pump, smaller lines, etc.).
Hopefully I'll be bringing my car home in a few more days, or early next week. I'm ready to get moving on things!
Harlan, your setup sounds almost exactly like what I'm leaning towards, only scaled down a tad on this end (smaller pump, smaller lines, etc.).
Hopefully I'll be bringing my car home in a few more days, or early next week. I'm ready to get moving on things!
Re: Fuel system thoughts... Harlan....why don't you go with the Weldon pump? Mine flows heaps of gas. Trust me, you don't want to go lean at all. Unless you like swollen pistons and scored walls (been there).
The Aeromotive is good, but will never support 900hp at the pressure we run. I know you want 45psi, but are you going to use a rising rate regulator? If so, you better go Weldon. You can get one from Geroge at Turbo Tech. What's another $200 when it may save you serious headaches?
The Aeromotive is good, but will never support 900hp at the pressure we run. I know you want 45psi, but are you going to use a rising rate regulator? If so, you better go Weldon. You can get one from Geroge at Turbo Tech. What's another $200 when it may save you serious headaches?
Thread Starter
TECH Junkie
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,987
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From: Melbourne, FL
Re: Fuel system thoughts... [quote]Originally posted by JimmyKash:
<strong>twin intank fuel pumps with STOCK LINES will support into the mid 9s on motor</strong><hr></blockquote>
I want to do away with an intank pump for maintenance and accessibility reasons. I will not reuse stock lines, and I now feel they are unsafe since they melted and ruptured so easily in my situation.
Plus, I'm willing to be that I can put together a system like I've been describing for close to the same amount as a twin intank setup, with the added safety of hard line/braided hose.
If you ever have to exit a burning car, then stand there and watch it go up in flames, you wouldn't want to take chances on plastic or rubber fuel line either.
<strong>twin intank fuel pumps with STOCK LINES will support into the mid 9s on motor</strong><hr></blockquote>
I want to do away with an intank pump for maintenance and accessibility reasons. I will not reuse stock lines, and I now feel they are unsafe since they melted and ruptured so easily in my situation.
Plus, I'm willing to be that I can put together a system like I've been describing for close to the same amount as a twin intank setup, with the added safety of hard line/braided hose.
If you ever have to exit a burning car, then stand there and watch it go up in flames, you wouldn't want to take chances on plastic or rubber fuel line either.