hammer cam intake center line?
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2002
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hammer cam intake center line? New 'Hammer cam' showed up 10 minutes ago, life is good. The cam card is showing the valve events on a 108 intake center line. I'm guessing that's installed dot to dot? Is this what everyone is installing in at or 4 deg. advanced? Thanks
fuzz
fuzz
Re: hammer cam intake center line? The 108 intake centerline shows that it was ground with 4 degrees of advance. If you line it up dot to dot, hopefully it will fall in the motor close to an actual 112 centerline (or straight up). You're taking a chance if you don't degree it in. If you do degree it in, don't install it at an actual 108 intake centerline. That's too advanced. The motor will make more power everywhere if it's in the motor at 112 ICL. Most people just line up the dots. By having 4 degrees of advance ground in, hopefully it will fall in the motor at 112. Good luck.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
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Launching!
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Houston
Re: hammer cam intake center line? Patrick thats actruly wrong.......if the cam already has 4 degree advance ground in too it and you don't degree the cam just stick the cam gear on and line up the dot ....it's going to have the cam in at 108 or 4 degree advance in this case. (considering it's acrtuly close) The only way too change that would be with cam botton that would put a 4 degree retard on this cam. then the cam would be back too a 112 Intake centerline. Thats the only way he can get the cam install straight up. (this is again considering that the cam and gears are all machined right like you said)
[ January 27, 2002: Message edited by: One Monkey ]</p>
[ January 27, 2002: Message edited by: One Monkey ]</p>
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Brett Foote
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From: Barbaria
Re: hammer cam intake center line? TTT
I'm curious about this as well. I bought a used hammer a while back, and the owner said it had to be installed at a 108ic. The one I bought was the 222/222 563/563 112 LSA compcam. As far as I know, the only way to install a cam in an LS1 with a stock timing chain is dot to dot...right?
I'm curious about this as well. I bought a used hammer a while back, and the owner said it had to be installed at a 108ic. The one I bought was the 222/222 563/563 112 LSA compcam. As far as I know, the only way to install a cam in an LS1 with a stock timing chain is dot to dot...right?
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2002
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Re: hammer cam intake center line? OK, thanks for the answers but still a little confusion. When i degree the cam, I'm going to install it dot to dot. If everything is in spec, it should be on a 108 intake canter line and a 112 lobe separation angle, right? How do I check LSA?
Assuming all specs are good, is this where I want to install it?
I think my confusion comes from looking at my cam card specs vs. the ones posted on Raughammer's page. My card is showing valve events on a 108 ICL vs. his being shown on a 112. Thanks again
fuzz
Assuming all specs are good, is this where I want to install it?
I think my confusion comes from looking at my cam card specs vs. the ones posted on Raughammer's page. My card is showing valve events on a 108 ICL vs. his being shown on a 112. Thanks again
fuzz
Launching!
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 291
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From: Houston
Re: hammer cam intake center line? yes your cam has the intake center 4 degree advance if you line up the dot thats where it will be. 108 on a 112 lSA. you have to have a degree wheel and a little know how. to find the LSA for your self.
Brent. \much too much too explain here Email me if you need help.
Brent. \much too much too explain here Email me if you need help.
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 50
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From: Houston
Re: hammer cam intake center line? The reason cams are ground with 4* of advance is because of the slack in the stock timing chain. Most cams end up falling behind the crank by a couple of degrees therefore negating the preground advance.
On The Tree
Joined: Nov 2001
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Re: hammer cam intake center line? The stock chain has a good 2 degrees of retarding slack. At least mine does. Maybe 3, but a full 4 degrees is some serious chain slack!
Dot to dot would most likely have you at a "running" 110 ICL if everything is machined correctly ,as this POS chain will retard events.
To check the LSA, measure both intake and exhaust center lines, take the 2 numbers and divide by 2.
Example.. intake at 108 and exhaust at 116 = the cam is ground on a 112 degree LSA.
Steve
[ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: just me ]</p>
Dot to dot would most likely have you at a "running" 110 ICL if everything is machined correctly ,as this POS chain will retard events.
To check the LSA, measure both intake and exhaust center lines, take the 2 numbers and divide by 2.
Example.. intake at 108 and exhaust at 116 = the cam is ground on a 112 degree LSA.
Steve
[ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: just me ]</p>
D(irecto)r Pepper
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Houston Raceway Park...in TEXAS.
Re: hammer cam intake center line? Guys we ask for 4 degrees of advance ground in for the slack in the "sorry ***" stock timing chain. Thats it. If we did'nt the stock chain would continue to stretch over time and we would end up retarded. So we grind in 4 degrees of advance. How did we come up with this number? (4)
When the speed shops were looking for cams way back in 98 and MTI was trying this and cam and that cam trying to come up with a "good grind".
It was found that "generaly" 4 degrees advance ground in would negate the slop in the chain and the cams would show when degree'd "straight up".
It seems the last few years LS1 cam cards from CC would not show the 4 degrees ground in. You would have to figure it out from the timing events. Now, they are showing it as 108 on the cam cards. No biggie.
It's all good. If your using Comp Cams, cams. Then you will probably be all right. Their cams are pretty accurate. Some other companies might not be so "accurate", but I have'nt degree'd a CC yet that spec'ed "out of range". (maybe I just havent done enough) *shrug*
I recommend folks to ALWAYS degree their cams. Find out exactly what the cam company sent you. Wondering about it later does you know good.
But generaly speaking... if you didnt degree your CC I wouldnt fret too much... they are usually "right on the money". (IMO)
When the speed shops were looking for cams way back in 98 and MTI was trying this and cam and that cam trying to come up with a "good grind".
It was found that "generaly" 4 degrees advance ground in would negate the slop in the chain and the cams would show when degree'd "straight up".
It seems the last few years LS1 cam cards from CC would not show the 4 degrees ground in. You would have to figure it out from the timing events. Now, they are showing it as 108 on the cam cards. No biggie.
It's all good. If your using Comp Cams, cams. Then you will probably be all right. Their cams are pretty accurate. Some other companies might not be so "accurate", but I have'nt degree'd a CC yet that spec'ed "out of range". (maybe I just havent done enough) *shrug*
I recommend folks to ALWAYS degree their cams. Find out exactly what the cam company sent you. Wondering about it later does you know good.
But generaly speaking... if you didnt degree your CC I wouldnt fret too much... they are usually "right on the money". (IMO)
Re: hammer cam intake center line? One Monkey,
I know that installing a 112LSA cam with a intake c/l of 108 (4 degrees advanced) will be in the motor in at 108 IN A PERFECT WORLD! If you ever looked at the POS timing chain that comes in the LS1s, you would see that the production tolerances vary wildly and usually on the retarded side. Since most people don't take the time to degree in their cams, they have no idea where the cam is actually in the motor. Line up the dots with a perfect timing chain and boom...you're at 108 i c/l. More likely, line up the dots and you're actually at 110-112 intake c/l...which is pretty close to ideal.
Installing a cam without a degree wheel is a gamble, but adding a few degrees of advance to the cam will increase your success of having the cam actually fall close to straight up in the motor...which is ideal.
I know that installing a 112LSA cam with a intake c/l of 108 (4 degrees advanced) will be in the motor in at 108 IN A PERFECT WORLD! If you ever looked at the POS timing chain that comes in the LS1s, you would see that the production tolerances vary wildly and usually on the retarded side. Since most people don't take the time to degree in their cams, they have no idea where the cam is actually in the motor. Line up the dots with a perfect timing chain and boom...you're at 108 i c/l. More likely, line up the dots and you're actually at 110-112 intake c/l...which is pretty close to ideal.
Installing a cam without a degree wheel is a gamble, but adding a few degrees of advance to the cam will increase your success of having the cam actually fall close to straight up in the motor...which is ideal.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 597
Likes: 0
From: Orange Park, FL
Re: hammer cam intake center line? John C, Patrick G and all you other gurus,
With all this "slop" in the stock timing chain etc... what brand did you guys switch over to when you changed your camshaft?
[ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: Chris99WS6PWTMET ]</p>
With all this "slop" in the stock timing chain etc... what brand did you guys switch over to when you changed your camshaft?
[ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: Chris99WS6PWTMET ]</p>
Re: hammer cam intake center line? My hammer cam card also listed the ICL as 108. I did not degreee the cam during the install.
I guess the big question is what effect would this have on the power curve? If a 114 lca has a narrower power band than a 112, would a 108 have a wider band with a lower peak than a 112 lca?
I was also under the impression that lca under 112 would idle VERY rough. My idle is actually very smooth at 850 rpm.
Mark
I guess the big question is what effect would this have on the power curve? If a 114 lca has a narrower power band than a 112, would a 108 have a wider band with a lower peak than a 112 lca?
I was also under the impression that lca under 112 would idle VERY rough. My idle is actually very smooth at 850 rpm.
Mark
