Which lid makes the most power?
02-05-2002, 07:59 PM
#22
Re: Which lid makes the most power? Saw this posted on the other board and it seems like a good time to throw it out there as they claim to have "Improved" over any of the current lids.
Phoenix Will Soon Introduce A New Complete Air Box Assembly!
Phoenix will soon be an exclusive dealer for a new upcoming air box assembly. This air box is a complete unit. It has a lower air box and upper lid, bolts and filter etc...
This isn't your every day ordinary air box. This will fit a regular Camaro with the stock hood, V6's..etc.. This will fit on ANY 98-02 Fbody.
The lid and air box is to produce at least 15rwhp on a stock LS1 engine. This also has the lower box cut out larger than any lower box. It is made to fit a Corvette air filter, so you can tell how much bigger the opening is.
The kit will be a tad pricey, around the 400 dollar range, but will come with new lower box, upper lid, new designed boot between lid and MAF, Corvette K&N Air Filter, bolts and IAT grommet. It is made of injection molded plastic. It is a very professional and clean looking box assembly.
In 2 weeks we will Dyno the lid with a stock 02 WS6 and we will also Dyno the lid with a 99 V-6 Firebird. Not only will you get 15rwhp at least with a stock LS1 engine but you will get more SOTP feel with this than any other lid on the market. We will let you know real-time Dyno numbers that were tested from us.
We will take pictures and start taking preliminary orders. The last nice thing about this lid and box assembly is you don't need to use the K&N gasket, this box and lid assembly seal right to the filter!!!
Look out for this new exciting product...
Gene
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Phoenix Pontiac Buick GMC
phoenix32@fast.net or 610.495.1700
www.phoenixpontiacbuickgmc.com
They claimed in dyno testing it was better than any of the current lids...
Phoenix Will Soon Introduce A New Complete Air Box Assembly!
Phoenix will soon be an exclusive dealer for a new upcoming air box assembly. This air box is a complete unit. It has a lower air box and upper lid, bolts and filter etc...
This isn't your every day ordinary air box. This will fit a regular Camaro with the stock hood, V6's..etc.. This will fit on ANY 98-02 Fbody.
The lid and air box is to produce at least 15rwhp on a stock LS1 engine. This also has the lower box cut out larger than any lower box. It is made to fit a Corvette air filter, so you can tell how much bigger the opening is.
The kit will be a tad pricey, around the 400 dollar range, but will come with new lower box, upper lid, new designed boot between lid and MAF, Corvette K&N Air Filter, bolts and IAT grommet. It is made of injection molded plastic. It is a very professional and clean looking box assembly.
In 2 weeks we will Dyno the lid with a stock 02 WS6 and we will also Dyno the lid with a 99 V-6 Firebird. Not only will you get 15rwhp at least with a stock LS1 engine but you will get more SOTP feel with this than any other lid on the market. We will let you know real-time Dyno numbers that were tested from us.
We will take pictures and start taking preliminary orders. The last nice thing about this lid and box assembly is you don't need to use the K&N gasket, this box and lid assembly seal right to the filter!!!
Look out for this new exciting product...
Gene
__________________
Phoenix Pontiac Buick GMC
phoenix32@fast.net or 610.495.1700
www.phoenixpontiacbuickgmc.com
They claimed in dyno testing it was better than any of the current lids...
02-05-2002, 09:21 PM
#23
Re: Which lid makes the most power? why don't we let the numbers do the talking?
fastest na ls1 Colonel
fastest na m6 ls1 Jason98ta
fastest na h/c ls1 Raughammer
each of these cars use the newer style MTI lid.
i thought the lid that sam flowed was the old style with the ring ext. As far as what EL ES 1 said, i agree i've seen you do these things.And if i were you i wouldn't try to "talk" to daniel when you see him because he doesn't do well with confrontation's. It seems like your throwin out flame bait to start a big mess.
fastest na ls1 Colonel
fastest na m6 ls1 Jason98ta
fastest na h/c ls1 Raughammer
each of these cars use the newer style MTI lid.
i thought the lid that sam flowed was the old style with the ring ext. As far as what EL ES 1 said, i agree i've seen you do these things.And if i were you i wouldn't try to "talk" to daniel when you see him because he doesn't do well with confrontation's. It seems like your throwin out flame bait to start a big mess.
02-05-2002, 09:59 PM
#24
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Re: Which lid makes the most power? Everybody has an opinion one way or the other.
Lets keep it civil guys...ok?
BTW, my opinion is that MTI ROCKS da' house.
Raughammer
Lets keep it civil guys...ok?
BTW, my opinion is that MTI ROCKS da' house.
Raughammer
02-05-2002, 10:54 PM
#25
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Re: Which lid makes the most power? I have two lids - an MTI clear lid and a Direct Flo lid. I found a bigger power improvement with the MTI lid - it was fairly definite, and it sealed better. However, this is a sample size of one, and . . . .
Because of sealing to the airbox, the mounting to the MAF, whether or not air leaks around the gasket (if you have one), there is likely going to be a substantial amount of variation when measuring these on the dyno, even when REMOUNTING THE SAME LID. The only way I think this debate could really be settled would be to grab more than one lid from each of the various manufacturers, a couple of different engine setups, and repeatedly dyno them until a consistent data set was obtained. Until then, it might be a case of "My lid is better than your lid" . . . .
Because of sealing to the airbox, the mounting to the MAF, whether or not air leaks around the gasket (if you have one), there is likely going to be a substantial amount of variation when measuring these on the dyno, even when REMOUNTING THE SAME LID. The only way I think this debate could really be settled would be to grab more than one lid from each of the various manufacturers, a couple of different engine setups, and repeatedly dyno them until a consistent data set was obtained. Until then, it might be a case of "My lid is better than your lid" . . . .
02-05-2002, 11:03 PM
#26
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Re: Which lid makes the most power? How much does having a cold intake charge matter? Is all this weatherstripping/FTRA/BG ram air etc worth it? The consensus is yes, with trap speeds up over 1 mph consistently sometimes...but Stock Elim cars just run an open TB, right? I guess the Firebird racers could run a straight pipe from the TB to the nostrils, but do they?
J.
J.
02-06-2002, 12:01 AM
#27
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Re: Which lid makes the most power? I do not think the dyno should be the ultimate decision on how a lid performs. It is nice to see gains in a static enviroment, but it would be better if someone could get realtime flow numbers while driving under WOT conditions. Is it possible to do this?
02-06-2002, 12:03 AM
#28
Re: Which lid makes the most power? Geez, what a newbie question Patrick! <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
Flow numbers don't mean much if the item you are flowing puts down MUCH greater numbers than the engine it is feeding can handle in the first place. These aftermarket lids are NOT the bottleneck, and everyone knows it.
Tony
Flow numbers don't mean much if the item you are flowing puts down MUCH greater numbers than the engine it is feeding can handle in the first place. These aftermarket lids are NOT the bottleneck, and everyone knows it.
Tony
02-06-2002, 12:10 AM
#29
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Re: Which lid makes the most power? Let's not start fighting.
Thanks! <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
-Colonel
[ February 05, 2002: Message edited by: Colonel ]</p>
Thanks! <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
-Colonel
[ February 05, 2002: Message edited by: Colonel ]</p>
02-06-2002, 12:17 AM
#30
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Re: Which lid makes the most power? come on Colonel ... I may have gone overboard but Thierry is just so darn (notice the language change) negative all the time...
02-06-2002, 12:30 AM
#31
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Re: Which lid makes the most power? I did pick up a LOT with a conical filter application when I had the Powerdyne on the car.
I have just started testing a new conical filter NA setup and the preliminary results feel good. To be able to use this however you must have your AC out or the filter will not fit.
I am running a short piece of flexible black tubing from the MAF to a 3 inch steel tube that connects directly to a 9x6x3.5 K&N filter. That filter flows over 1000cfm and there is very little pressure drop or resistance across the filter. I have yet to fab up a custom rad shroud and fully test everything but it works great so far. I noticed a drop from O2's in the .930 range to the LOW 800 range. That is a serious increase in airflow right there. I have to richen up my MAFT to get the car back to normal on the O2's. I was previously running a LS1 motorsports lid and a K&N filter with FRA and raised airbox.
I will be able to test more soon. It is sort of a cheap alternative to the K&N FIPK. It doesnt look that great yet but I will borrow a friends digi camera and take pics for you when I drop the car off to ARE for all the changes.
Hope this helps,
Chris
I have just started testing a new conical filter NA setup and the preliminary results feel good. To be able to use this however you must have your AC out or the filter will not fit.
I am running a short piece of flexible black tubing from the MAF to a 3 inch steel tube that connects directly to a 9x6x3.5 K&N filter. That filter flows over 1000cfm and there is very little pressure drop or resistance across the filter. I have yet to fab up a custom rad shroud and fully test everything but it works great so far. I noticed a drop from O2's in the .930 range to the LOW 800 range. That is a serious increase in airflow right there. I have to richen up my MAFT to get the car back to normal on the O2's. I was previously running a LS1 motorsports lid and a K&N filter with FRA and raised airbox.
I will be able to test more soon. It is sort of a cheap alternative to the K&N FIPK. It doesnt look that great yet but I will borrow a friends digi camera and take pics for you when I drop the car off to ARE for all the changes.
Hope this helps,
Chris
02-06-2002, 12:34 AM
#32
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Re: Which lid makes the most power? [quote]Originally posted by Jim Mills:
<strong>come on Colonel ... I may have gone overboard but Thierry is just so darn (notice the language change) negative all the time...</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm just keepin' it clean. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
We're going to be doing alot more of that from now on to keep this place from being so negative.
Now you behave too, Thierry. <img src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" border="0" alt="[jester]" />
<strong>come on Colonel ... I may have gone overboard but Thierry is just so darn (notice the language change) negative all the time...</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm just keepin' it clean. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
We're going to be doing alot more of that from now on to keep this place from being so negative.
Now you behave too, Thierry. <img src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" border="0" alt="[jester]" />
02-06-2002, 12:36 AM
#33
Re: Which lid makes the most power? [quote]Originally posted by WILWAXU:
<strong>
So if your to believe those results as accuarate... The 8rwhp I saw on the dyno after lid install was a lie?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
WTF? <img src="images/icons/confused.gif" border="0"> When did I accuse you of lying??
He did some flow testing. He didn't say anything about dyno testing. I think all the lids have worked on the dyno. If we had all the dyno results from everybody maybe we could do a statistical test to see if one works better.
<strong>
So if your to believe those results as accuarate... The 8rwhp I saw on the dyno after lid install was a lie?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
WTF? <img src="images/icons/confused.gif" border="0"> When did I accuse you of lying??
He did some flow testing. He didn't say anything about dyno testing. I think all the lids have worked on the dyno. If we had all the dyno results from everybody maybe we could do a statistical test to see if one works better.
02-06-2002, 12:51 AM
#34
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Re: Which lid makes the most power? [quote]Originally posted by Ragtop 99:
<strong>
If we had all the dyno results from everybody maybe we could do a statistical test to see if one works better.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I doubt it...you're talking about different motors, on different dynos, on different days. There's too much variance there. Now if you could get several lids and install them each on one car and dyno with each, with plenty of time in between, then you could see what the dyno has to say about which flows best under high HP/TQ applications. Whether or not the dyno is the best way to measure it is another question <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
<strong>
If we had all the dyno results from everybody maybe we could do a statistical test to see if one works better.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I doubt it...you're talking about different motors, on different dynos, on different days. There's too much variance there. Now if you could get several lids and install them each on one car and dyno with each, with plenty of time in between, then you could see what the dyno has to say about which flows best under high HP/TQ applications. Whether or not the dyno is the best way to measure it is another question <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
02-06-2002, 09:12 AM
#35
Re: Which lid makes the most power? [quote]Originally posted by Crazyquik:
<strong>.. I guess the Firebird racers could run a straight pipe from the TB to the nostrils, but do they?..</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's pretty much what I run <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> A WS6 hood with the baffles removed going into a WS6 lower air box gives the air a near straight path to the TB <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
<strong>.. I guess the Firebird racers could run a straight pipe from the TB to the nostrils, but do they?..</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's pretty much what I run <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> A WS6 hood with the baffles removed going into a WS6 lower air box gives the air a near straight path to the TB <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
02-06-2002, 09:17 AM
#36
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Re: Which lid makes the most power? Well, If all the other shops hadn`t of copied the original MTI lid, than this whole thread would be obsolete..But,,,,,They did and here we are <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> Damn , Idea steelers suck!
I personally feel that motors over 400 RWHP are not hurt by the lid but by the small 1" x 17" opening at the mouth of the lower lid.. Thats why I ran a Ram air lower air lid, with twice the air opening but I still would have liked more.. I know the MTI lid never hurt my power , because we dynoed with it, with out it and every way in between..I also don`t live on flow numbers but just like to use them for a refernce to find more power or track test..The track is the only test in my opinion..
I feel Patrick is bringing a legit thread to this forum and I know he would not bash MTI..Patrick is in the automotive marketing end of this game and is a true technical fan of "automotive performance"..I think his whole thread is being misconstrued by many and trolled by those with non technical minds..I know Patrick G has brought TOns and tons of info to this sight and his relationship with many of the leaders in the performance industry has benefited MOST of us one way or another...
As John (Raughammer ) said: "lets keep it civil" I second that!
[ February 06, 2002: Message edited by: 99RedHawk ]</p>
I personally feel that motors over 400 RWHP are not hurt by the lid but by the small 1" x 17" opening at the mouth of the lower lid.. Thats why I ran a Ram air lower air lid, with twice the air opening but I still would have liked more.. I know the MTI lid never hurt my power , because we dynoed with it, with out it and every way in between..I also don`t live on flow numbers but just like to use them for a refernce to find more power or track test..The track is the only test in my opinion..
I feel Patrick is bringing a legit thread to this forum and I know he would not bash MTI..Patrick is in the automotive marketing end of this game and is a true technical fan of "automotive performance"..I think his whole thread is being misconstrued by many and trolled by those with non technical minds..I know Patrick G has brought TOns and tons of info to this sight and his relationship with many of the leaders in the performance industry has benefited MOST of us one way or another...
As John (Raughammer ) said: "lets keep it civil" I second that!
[ February 06, 2002: Message edited by: 99RedHawk ]</p>
02-06-2002, 09:41 AM
#37
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Re: Which lid makes the most power? [quote]Originally posted by 99 Black Bird T/A:
<strong>The last nice thing about this lid and box assembly is you don't need to use the K&N gasket, this box and lid assembly seal right to the filter!!!</strong><hr></blockquote>
So what happens if you have a stock filter, or a Holley filter? Both are thicker than a K+N. Will they even fit?
BTW I agree with 99RedHawk.
<strong>The last nice thing about this lid and box assembly is you don't need to use the K&N gasket, this box and lid assembly seal right to the filter!!!</strong><hr></blockquote>
So what happens if you have a stock filter, or a Holley filter? Both are thicker than a K+N. Will they even fit?
BTW I agree with 99RedHawk.
02-06-2002, 03:30 PM
#38
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Re: Which lid makes the most power? I always used a stock paper filter with the element removed and just stretched "Panty hose" over the wire mesh..Used to be called the PAny hose mod..Track use only.. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
