I'm getting ready to pull the heads to put new lifters in. I'm scared as hell to do the torque to yield thing. I've never done it. I have new GM head bolts. Will the new bolts break very easy? I have read the article on LS1howto several times but still scared to do it.

 

this is what u do, u throw out the gm head bolts and u get arp head bolts, then u put alittle oil on them and torque them to 85ftlbs.

well either way torqueing them is mad easy, expecially in a vette. just do the marking thing

 

Are the ARP bolts alot better than the GM? This is in an Fbody

 

i really dont know, but the torque to yeild thing sucks to do, its hard to see the bolts farthest away cause they are "inside" the head and under the cowl so u cant see how much u twisted them, plus the arp are reusable

 

U have NOTHING to worry about with the GM head bolts. If I did it, anyone can do it. ur not going to break them...if one or more break then there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with the GM bolts.

If u want to spend the extra money on ARP head bolts then go ahead but u don't need them, u'll gain nothing out of them because if ur going to be pushing the limits of the bolts then I'm pretty sure something else is gonna give before that.

IMO use the GM bolts, make sure the holes for the bolts are CLEAN and follow the LS1howto.

 

well I do already have new GM bolts. I do see that alot of people run the APR studs. Are the studs supposed to be better than the bolts or what?

 

they are stronger but like I said if u are pushing the limits of the bolts (even GM bolts) 99.9% sure something else is gonna give before.

 

There is no comparison between the Stock bolts and the ARP's. The ARP's are the only way to go in my opinion. If you want the very best setup, use the ARP head studs. This way you are not putting all of the twisting stress on the threads in the block when torquing. This will make you block last much longer as well as give you a much more accurate torque on the heads. Now if you are really dedicated you can go one step further and get the GM thread replacement kit for the LSX engines and drill out the aluminum threads and replace them with steel inserts. On my block I have done this on all of the head bolts and main cap bolts too. It takes a while but you will never have to worry about pulling out the threads!! This kit comes with all of the drills, reamers taps and the inserts for about $500.00.

 

I just read this so now I don't know about the ARP boltshttps://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ARP+head+bolts

 

I just put both heads of my truck motor on today using GM bolts so I can relate to this. Like you, I was also scared, having never done it before, but it was a lot easier than I thought if you know a few tricks.

1: First and Foremost !! Before putting the heads on, take a soda straw and attach it to the hose on a vacuum cleaner using some ingenuity and whatever is handy. Then use this "anteater vacuum" to suck out any water, oil, coolant, cleaner etc. that may be in the holes. Afterwards take a Q-Tip and tape it to a thin stick or wire, and probe the bottom of the holes to make CERTAIN there is NO liquid or trash down there. This is very important otherwise you risk splitting the block.

2: Pull out the metal rings that are probably stuck in the bottom end bolt holes in the heads and put them in the corresponding recessed holes in the block. Attach your gasket to the block using these rings. Then put on the head.

3: Put all the bolts in except for the small ones in the top row and tighten them to just snug.

4: Using a torque wrench, tighten the bolts using GM's pattern to 22 ft-lbs.

5: Take a permanent marker and mark each of the bolts at the 12 O'Clock position.

6: Again using the same pattern tighten the bolts to the prescribed angle. For my truck it was 90 degrees so it would be the 3 O'Clock position. Use a length of pipe on the wrench if you are weak like me. Use a plain socket wrench, not a torque wrench, and feel free to stop and check the bolt and/or back up the ratchet as necessary.

7: Repeat for the final pass. On my truck it was another 90 deg. (6 O'Clock position) for the long bolts and 50 deg. ( about 4:30 to 5:00) for the 2 short bolts, but I have the iron block. The aluminum blocks may use different values.

8: Put in and torque down the 5 small bolts on top.

The bolts are not that hard to turn if you use a length of pipe and the nice thing is you can stop and check as often as you like. Just don't overtorque.

Edit: Don't worry about them breaking either. They are like a really tough piece of taffy and you can feel them stretch as you tighten them down.

 

i think ARP bolts are a GREAT investment(picked mine up with a few miles on them for 75 bucks)

Also i think they have diff torque specs(ask ARP)

 

I will be doing this soon too, and keep changing my mind about GM vs ARP...

 

well i ended up buying a set of the ARP so now i have a set of them and the GM. I'll have to decide what ones I want to use

 

I'm gonna put in my two cents. Either will work. The stock bolts are preloaded by a fixed rotation. The initial torque is to seat things, the rotation is to preload to a well defined parameter. If you use them, get the rotation tool. Its not much money and its the way things are going with many new cars.

If you use the ARP's, make sure the holes are clean and dry. Make sure you use the ARP Moly Lube. Make sure you coat them well including the washers. These bolts are being stretched close to yield. You want to make sure you are stretching them correctly. Call the ARP tech line and ask a million questions, if you get the right guy they are helpful. Call twice to verify (I'm a pain on this stuff ) but it is critical to not having problems.

Before pulling the heads, pull the water pump and suck the water out of the block. I did this and hardly any coolant came out from the heads. This makes less of a mess and the bolt holes will stay drier. Make absolutely sure there is no coolant in the bolt holes prior to re-assembly.

 

I could not agree with you more about making sure the bolt holes are clean before you start. I made an adapter for my vacuum out of a piece of copper tubing to get down into the bolt holes. Remember the GM bolts have that red goop on them and it is going to end up somewhere. Also Torque angle gauges are available from MAC, Snap-On, Matco and many other places. Mine is a Snap-On that was around $50.00.

If for any reason the bolts feel springy or spongy (in other words if they feel like a spring being wound up) this means the bolt has bottomed out on something in the hole or the threads have transfered to the bolt and welded it in place. There is absolutely no reason to break an ARP bolt!! They are some of the highest quality fasteners in the industry.

 

are you sure to torque the head bolts to 85 lb.ft, how about the small bolts do i torque them to 85 lb.ft? in ls1howto.com they said to torque the small bolts to 22 lb.ft and the big ones to 22 lb.ft then turn the big bolts 90 degree turn then the long big bolts another 90 degree turn and shorter big bolts another 50 degree turn.

 

Like the others said, its a breeze to do the actual torqueing. Just make sure to clean the bolt holes. I use a shop vac and a straw. Getting the socket onto the bolts can be a little pain in the *** if the headers are in the way.

 

well I'm for sure going to pull the heads tomarrow. The ticking is not better, maybe worse. i checked the rockers and they are fine. I'm sick of this **** so I'm going to see what the hell is wrong

 

I have used both GM and ARP bolts. The ARPs were much easier just torque them down and call it a day. When I did the GM it was tough getting all the angle on them. I was lucky though the motor was out of the car.. I suspect it would suck using the GM bolts in the car.. If you use your arp bolts make sure you put their ARP lube on both side of the washer and threads of the bolt and do not use lock tite.

 

No.

The ARP's and the GM's use two entirely different methods to obtain the correct bolt preload. Which are you using? It makes a huge difference and you could end up with a mess if you are using the wrong one on the wrong bolt.

The ARP bolt torque is a function of the lubrication being used. ARP does all their preload testing with their Moly Lube so they obtain consistent and predictable results. This is one reason why the torque to rotation came into play, it is more predictable than a torque value is since torque depends so much on friction and friction depends so much on the end user. ARP uses the Moly Lube of their specification to basically control the friction and get consistent results. Stray from their procedure and you don't know what you will have for preload.