Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better!
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From: Valrico, Florida
Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! It all sounds good in theory, but in reality I have not seen any proof.. I would like to have some examples as well. Most people that change cams, also change other things.. That messes up results.. If you have proof that your cam swap to a more aggressive cam has netted some real world impressive #'s.. Feel free to share them. I mean real #'s, i.e., 10 to 20rwhp under the curve or something more than 10rwhp peak #'s.. Even if you know someone that has done this, please get them on here..
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! <proof ****>NO PROOF FOR YOU!!!</proof ****>
<img src="gr_tounge.gif" border="0">
\chris
[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: Visceral ]</p>
<img src="gr_tounge.gif" border="0">
\chris
[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: Visceral ]</p>
Thread Starter
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From: Valrico, Florida
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! LOL!!!! I think this is a fair question. I have seen many guys change cams to receive very little if any results.. I do not believe in this magical cam.. Sticking with the norm seems to be what is working. I love change, but only if it is going to net an offset of paying for a new cam and install.. Cam change could cost more than a grand if you need to change valvetrains.
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! [quote]Originally posted by vmoore:
<strong>LOL!!!! I think this is a fair question. I have seen many guys change cams to receive very little if any results.. I do not believe in this magical cam.. Sticking with the norm seems to be what is working. I love change, but only if it is going to net an offset of paying for a new cam and install.. Cam change could cost more than a grand if you need to change valvetrains.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't think changing cams of the same duration and LSA just to gain more lift is going to gain a lot unless the jump is big. Higher ratio rockers are common mods to add more power and adding cam lift pretty much accomplishes the same goal.
I'm going to run that cam because the incremental cost is $0 once you are already making the switch. 5 hp for free? Yes Sir, May I have another! <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
<strong>LOL!!!! I think this is a fair question. I have seen many guys change cams to receive very little if any results.. I do not believe in this magical cam.. Sticking with the norm seems to be what is working. I love change, but only if it is going to net an offset of paying for a new cam and install.. Cam change could cost more than a grand if you need to change valvetrains.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't think changing cams of the same duration and LSA just to gain more lift is going to gain a lot unless the jump is big. Higher ratio rockers are common mods to add more power and adding cam lift pretty much accomplishes the same goal.
I'm going to run that cam because the incremental cost is $0 once you are already making the switch. 5 hp for free? Yes Sir, May I have another! <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Valrico, Florida
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! This is in no way a personal attack on anyone. You have #'s supporting a positive outlook besides getting a great deal on a cam change please feel free to share.. If you are getting a deal and you can compare it with your previous setup the great improvements that the new cam did for your setup that would be great. This post will be here unless it is locked.. Then I will start a new one..
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From: new england
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! Vmoore, i dont have personal experience with this subject on LS1,s but i have been paying attention,
How about Hotcam vs. Hammer cam or equivalent. The Hotcam has less agressive lobes and constantly comes in at least 10 hp down over Hammer, etc. These other cams even have less duration and yet make more power. I dont think my comments would be contested by most do you?
How about Hotcam vs. Hammer cam or equivalent. The Hotcam has less agressive lobes and constantly comes in at least 10 hp down over Hammer, etc. These other cams even have less duration and yet make more power. I dont think my comments would be contested by most do you?
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! I haven't visually seen any concrete proof that supports the hype about aggressive lobes on an LS1. Cams are not magical, and cams have been around since pushrod motors have been around. Its not like any new scientific discoveries are being found with camshafts in OHV motors. If aggressive cam lobes are so badass for performance (hype?) then how come the manufacturers didn't just skip the less aggressive lobe patterns and start with the "badass" ones?
Lift IS a good thing however. The only gains I could see is from increasing lift on a cam with the same duration and LSA. Ramp rates? Nah.
Tony
Lift IS a good thing however. The only gains I could see is from increasing lift on a cam with the same duration and LSA. Ramp rates? Nah.
Tony
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Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! [quote]The Hotcam has less agressive lobes and constantly comes in at least 10 hp down over Hammer, etc<hr></blockquote>
Hotcam and Hammer cam have much different lift values. Those higher lifts on the hammer cam automatically increase ramp rates.
Now, the difference between a T1 and Hammer would be negligible in my opinion. 0.007" lift is not much difference.
Tony
Hotcam and Hammer cam have much different lift values. Those higher lifts on the hammer cam automatically increase ramp rates.
Now, the difference between a T1 and Hammer would be negligible in my opinion. 0.007" lift is not much difference.
Tony
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From: Wichita, KS - 1400' above sea level ;-)
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! This is a very good question IMHO...remember, if your radical-ramp lobes <img src="graemlins/gr_judge.gif" border="0" alt="[judgement]" /> require you to jump in spring pressure - that is costing you power. I would like to see what the real overall gain is - 1 or 10 RWHP, know what I mean? <img src="gr_tounge.gif" border="0">
[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: Plum Crazy Rob ]</p>
[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: Plum Crazy Rob ]</p>
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From: Lexington Park, MD
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! [quote]Originally posted by Visceral:
<strong><proof ****>NO PROOF FOR YOU!!!</proof ****>
<img src="gr_tounge.gif" border="0">
\chris
[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: Visceral ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Now that just cracked me up.. <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
<strong><proof ****>NO PROOF FOR YOU!!!</proof ****>
<img src="gr_tounge.gif" border="0">
\chris
[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: Visceral ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Now that just cracked me up.. <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
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From: new england
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! Tony thats my point, hotcam is a less agressive profile and yet it is a biggercam and it loses in a contest with more agressive profiles. More lift and the same duration means a more steep ramp rate, thats how it works. If there wasnt power in ramp rates the Hot cam should make more power from having more duration.
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From: Valrico, Florida
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! Are you trying to say more duration equates to more horsepower? I sure hope not. We have many peoples dynos with many different durations to argue against that theory..
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From: Valrico, Florida
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! Plus, you have to consider the heads that are on the car and the flow characteristics.. I am still waiting for proof that these new aggressive cams are better than the ones we are already using.
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From: new england
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! Up to a point yes thats what im saying.You can go too big for a set combination, and that would lose power, but the potential to make more power lies(NO power adder) with the ability to raise torque peak, and this is most easily done with increased duration and lift.
Thread Starter
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From: Valrico, Florida
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! I agree to a certain point. No cam is going to get a 346ci to produce the torque of a bigger motor and that is what people are looking for. Yes, we can play around with different combos to achieve some great #'s, but the fact of the matter is the cam is not going to be the single factor. I will drop my car off at any shop and let them swap cams out for a month. I do not think they would get much than what I have in the T1. The vendors here have put their work in and we already have the best combos out there. You want more then you have to purchase a bigger motor and go with LS6 heads/6.0L heads.. The big search is to find out what works with you particular setup. One cam might work better than another for your car depending on your mods. Like I said before, I am always game for change, but I need proof that one cam is better than another just by being more aggressive. 10rwhp is not work $1k cam change..
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From: new england
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! See now i agree with you, the big gain was going from stock cam to T1, no other cam is going to best your by much without doing other things like porting heads. BTW who is claiming to have a new more aggressive grind than something like yours?
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! You guys stay tuned. I will be swapping out my Lunati 221/224 .558/.560 113LSA cam for a Comp XE-R 226/226, .585/.585 113LSA cam on Saturday. I will dyno before and after. No changes except the cam. I'm expecting some nice gains.
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2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
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Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Valrico, Florida
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! Comp Cams new XE-R cams... I have the old Lunati T1 cam. For the last 6 months some have been trying to talk me into changing cams. I have ported heads now and once I fix my clutch and valvefloat we will have new dyno #'s for you. My heads flow great at the .550 lift, but flow better at the .600lift.. Their rationale is I want a better avg across the range and a bigger more aggressive cam would do this, but how much of a gain will I receive? If any gain at all. One thing I know is if I receive no gain then it is a financial loss.. I just want proof that aggressive cams are even worth the consideration.
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From: new england
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! Vmoore, it doesnt look like you have good final dyno #'s yet, but when you do i say you wont make more than 10hp or so with a cam swap.So it wouldnt be worth it IMO to try "new" cam. But keep in mind there is a key flow window to concentrate head flow and proper valve lift on. If your not taking advantage of it there would be power in doing so.