Generation III Internal Engine 1997-2006 LS1 | LS6
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Big bores, head gaskets, droped liners.... It's happening but who will admit it?????

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 06-10-2002, 04:00 PM
  #41  
Resident Grump
Thread Starter
 
Joe Kizzire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Walker County Alabama
Posts: 1,050
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: Big bores, head gaskets, droped liners.... It's happening but who will admit it?????

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Joe Kizzire:
<strong>[QUOTE]Originally posted by Terry Burger:
[qb]It sounds like Joe wants the sponsors to do R&D for him?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">At $18,000 a pop they f@#king better do the R&D.

Let's see we've heard from Tony, Warbird and Terry Burger.... That should about do it for the LS1Tech shop cheerleaders.

Now who else has had problems with big bore sleeved motors
Joe Kizzire is offline  
Old 06-10-2002, 04:14 PM
  #42  
TECH Junkie
 
GeorgeC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Melbourne, FL
Posts: 3,987
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default Re: Big bores, head gaskets, droped liners.... It's happening but who will admit it?????

I've heard alot of good and bad on the subject, and made up my mind to let ARE build a 382cid all-bore motor for me (4.100" bore)... Nick assures me that the sealing problems of the past have been remedied, at least on the 4.10" stuff. I'm not sure about anything bigger, just what he discussed with me.

I don't anticipate any problems with my new motor, but I'm sure ARE will handle whatever problems I run into...

I should be able to say if I'm "leak free" or not in a few more weeks...
GeorgeC is offline  
Old 06-10-2002, 04:15 PM
  #43  
9 Second Club
iTrader: (37)
 
cablebandit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 7,903
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post

Default Re: Big bores, head gaskets, droped liners.... It's happening but who will admit it?????

I think the sponsor should do the R&D. Now if you are told up front that you MAY have a problem or that you are a guinea pig, then you have no reason to complain. It costs a lot of money for R&D and I can see where they may take a chance to get a product out but sometimes folks (customers) are willing to take a chance to be the first with something.
cablebandit is offline  
Old 06-10-2002, 04:30 PM
  #44  
Moderator
 
Black LS1 T/A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 3,039
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 8 Posts

Default Re: Big bores, head gaskets, droped liners.... It's happening but who will admit it?????

I wouldn't be a guinea pig unless they will fix it, whatever happens.

That may mean delays, frustration with unknowns that pop up... that's part of the testing bag. But, surely no one would willingly say, "OK... if you break it, I'll suck up the cost of making it back right".

And there has to be some kind of benefits to being a guinea pig. But, I can see how you'd have to have some patience.
Black LS1 T/A is offline  
Old 06-10-2002, 06:53 PM
  #45  
TECH Fanatic
 
MelloYellow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Centrifugal City
Posts: 1,986
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default Re: Big bores, head gaskets, droped liners.... It's happening but who will admit it?????

Why wasn't BadAss's MTI under warranty and replaced?
MelloYellow is offline  
Old 06-10-2002, 06:56 PM
  #46  
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (4)
 
Terry Burger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Simi Valley, CA
Posts: 4,712
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default Re: Big bores, head gaskets, droped liners.... It's happening but who will admit it?????

George what happened to the 346ci motor????
Terry Burger is offline  
Old 06-10-2002, 07:00 PM
  #47  
Adkoonerstrator
iTrader: (4)
 
XLR8NSS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Deep in the seedy underworld of Koonerville
Posts: 21,420
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default Re: Big bores, head gaskets, droped liners.... It's happening but who will admit it?????

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Terry Burger:
<strong>George what happened to the 346ci motor????</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nick has a way of talking you into more than you were originally going with. <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />

<small>[ June 10, 2002, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: XLR8NSS ]</small>
XLR8NSS is offline  
Old 06-10-2002, 07:08 PM
  #48  
Resident Grump
Thread Starter
 
Joe Kizzire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Walker County Alabama
Posts: 1,050
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: Big bores, head gaskets, droped liners.... It's happening but who will admit it?????

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by GeorgeC:
<strong>I've heard alot of good and bad on the subject, and made up my mind to let ARE build a 382cid all-bore motor for me (4.100" bore)... Nick assures me that the sealing problems of the past have been remedied, at least on the 4.10" stuff. I'm not sure about anything bigger, just what he discussed with me.

I don't anticipate any problems with my new motor, but I'm sure ARE will handle whatever problems I run into...

I should be able to say if I'm "leak free" or not in a few more weeks...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">George what happened to the high winding 346 that you were getting???? What changed your mind????
Joe Kizzire is offline  
Old 06-10-2002, 07:11 PM
  #49  
jmX
TECH Junkie
 
jmX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,604
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: Big bores, head gaskets, droped liners.... It's happening but who will admit it?????

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Bad *** LS1:
<strong>Well, this matter happened a couple of years ago. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You, and many other people I know have had bad experiences with MTI....However, the key point for me is, all those experience I always hear with were 1-2+ years ago, and every once of them has been an LT1 guy.

Either somebody else handles LT1 business at MTI, or MTI got their stuff together and eliminated the problem with their customer service recently. Although due to all the stuff I once heard I swore I'd never use MTI, it seems they turned around and cleaned things up to make them one of the best shops around now, at least for LS1 stuff.

I'm not going to hesitate using them in the future until I hear *NEW* customer service issues, not the same old stories from a while back..(although they definitly are a sore point).
jmX is offline  
Old 06-10-2002, 08:22 PM
  #50  
11 Second Club
iTrader: (3)
 
MARKSZ71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: bama bitch
Posts: 1,582
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default Re: Big bores, head gaskets, droped liners.... It's happening but who will admit it?????

if joe had an aluminum block we would never had this thread <img border="0" alt="[judgement]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_judge.gif" />
MARKSZ71 is offline  
Old 06-10-2002, 09:42 PM
  #51  
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (3)
 
JUISSD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Lake Jackson, TX
Posts: 502
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default Re: Big bores, head gaskets, droped liners.... It's happening but who will admit it?????

JMX, you are 100% correct. Most of the problems with customer service did involve LT1 guys. At the time of my problems with them, they were starting to get really into the LS1 development, and I feel that was part of the reason for blowing me off.

Tony, as I stated before, this wasn't an LS1 big bore, but a stroker LT1. If you want the details here they are, the short version:

I started taking my car to MTI after I bought my 95Z in April of 97. At first the service was excellent, and after getting great results with bolt ons and nitrous, I decided to have them build my 396 stroker after the stock motor finally let go (#3 piston took a dump after an amazing 14 months of spraying a 175 shot). I was promised a roughly 3 week turnaround for the motor (complete package, heads, etc etc). They did all the labor as well. When 3 weeks became 3 months I was getting a little perturbed. After a few weeks of "next weekend we promise!" they finally slapped it all together. When we made the plans for the motor (MTI and myself), I specifically told them that if the motor doesn't clean up with a .030" overbore, use a new block. I later found out after I took delivery of the car that it didn't clean up, and they sleeved the block, not the whole block, just the #3 cylinder. After a whole slew of problems like the power steering pump falling off because they stripped the bracket, bad overheating problems (later found out to be because of the cracked block), a completely missing intake bolt on the back of the intake, and just overall poor workmanship, it got to the point where it was undrivable. I took it back for repair, at which time I was told it was "my problem" and I "was lucky they fixed the earlier problems" which they somehow blamed me for. There are several other problems I had with the car, none of which were repaired to my satisfaction.

I don't expect to hear from them and frankly don't care. It's not like they're going to make it right now. At first I bashed them at every turn, but figured what's the point? If someone asks what my experiences were, I tell them what happened. I know people that have gone to them since then and feel they were treated very well. Like I said, I don't know why they did what they did, sucks to be me I guess. Although I have heard a lot of people that got bad treatment, none to my extent of financial loss, but bad treatment none the less. But again, mostly with the LT1 crowd.

You asked and I told. What I said are the facts of the situation, and will stand behind what I said. Take them for whatever you want.
JUISSD is offline  
Old 06-10-2002, 10:29 PM
  #52  
TECH Regular
iTrader: (1)
 
ABNRNGR (Aka Dean)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Houston
Posts: 443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: Big bores, head gaskets, droped liners.... It's happening but who will admit it?????

I think you should call Jayson and talk to him. He is fair and I believe he will take care of you even though it was a while back. good luck
ABNRNGR (Aka Dean) is offline  
Old 06-10-2002, 10:44 PM
  #53  
TECH Fanatic
 
MelloYellow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Centrifugal City
Posts: 1,986
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default Re: Big bores, head gaskets, droped liners.... It's happening but who will admit it?????

Ahh, good to hear the explanation. Glad it wasn't recent. I still think they should have taken care of you tho. Hard to find shops you can trust anymore.
MelloYellow is offline  
Old 06-10-2002, 10:57 PM
  #54  
Resident Grump
Thread Starter
 
Joe Kizzire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Walker County Alabama
Posts: 1,050
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: Big bores, head gaskets, droped liners.... It's happening but who will admit it?????

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MARKSZ71:
<strong>if joe had an aluminum block we would never had this thread <img border="0" alt="[judgement]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_judge.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The reason I don't have an aluminum block is I knew of all the problems and decided on the iron block.

This thread was started because two good friends of mine have big bore motors and are right now at the mercy of sponsors on this board.
Neither of them have got to drive there cars in months due to engine problems. I just think it's a crying shame a man has to do without his vehicle for months while a shop has the engine or it's on a freight truck going to and from.

Mark if you would read into this thread you would understand it ain't about iron verses aluminum it's about people spending hard earned money for something and not getting what they paid for.

<small>[ June 10, 2002, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: Joe Kizzire ]</small>
Joe Kizzire is offline  
Old 06-10-2002, 11:37 PM
  #55  
TECH Addict
 
AlonzoVersion 1.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Fort Worth,TX
Posts: 2,340
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: Big bores, head gaskets, droped liners.... It's happening but who will admit it?????

I will agree that if I spend 18,000 dollars then I had better not be a test mule and they better not tell me to add sealant to my motor.That is plain BS.Someone who works hard for their money wouldnt like that either I am sure.Before you start saling things that are that expensive then you should have the process down or tell the customer hey there is a chance this may happen.
AlonzoVersion 1.0 is offline  
Old 06-11-2002, 08:09 AM
  #56  
TECH Enthusiast
 
Warbird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 650
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: Big bores, head gaskets, droped liners.... It's happening but who will admit it?????

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Let's see we've heard from Tony, Warbird and Terry Burger.... That should about do it for the LS1Tech shop cheerleaders.

Now who else has had problems with big bore sleeved motors[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmmmmmmmmm Joe, with 27 posts, I hardly rate as an ARE cheerleader. You asked for experiences and I gave mine. Nick and ARE are more than capable, and prefer to speak for themselves. Anyone with any sensibilty would work directly with a shop and use comments on the boards as a guide for user feedback, nothing more.

You constantly come to these boards to insinuate ethereal non-specific issues, but whenever someone speaks positively about expeiences with one of the sponsors you like to tar us as cheerleaders or worse. Perhaps creating conspiracy where none existed before is your lot in life.

Everyone has good and bad experiences, but I have to agree with Tony that unless you are going to be very specific about the issues they have no place on any of these boards. Half truths hurt everybody.

If someone fears retribution from a shop and won't speak out I think they have a bigger problem. Most shops would prefer to work out the issues with their respective clients, and there are always two sides to every story. So keeping problems secret should have no impact on the shop and client working out their differences together. Board feedback at best could be helpful only in guiding those discussions.

Regards

Paul

<small>[ June 11, 2002, 08:15 AM: Message edited by: Warbird ]</small>
Warbird is offline  
Old 06-11-2002, 10:24 AM
  #57  
LS1Tech Co-Founder
iTrader: (34)
 
Pro Stock John's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 44,723
Received 1,174 Likes on 763 Posts

Default Re: Big bores, head gaskets, droped liners.... It's happening but who will admit it?????

Joe, I know of one big bore situation that you are speaking of. I hope that deal is getting remedied.

To the guy who had the MTI stuff done, how did it all end? Did you talk to Jayson and what happened?

I will be honest on another point, a lot of LT1 stuff that is pre 1998 was NOT fast for ANY of the the LT1 shops. I think that since the LS1 came out the LT1 market has become even stronger due to the LS1'ers pushing the envelope.
Pro Stock John is offline  
Old 06-11-2002, 10:41 AM
  #58  
LS1Tech Co-Founder
iTrader: (38)
 
Nine Ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 32,987
Likes: 0
Received 46 Likes on 19 Posts

Default Re: Big bores, head gaskets, droped liners.... It's happening but who will admit it?????

Just for the record, MTI didn't have a machine shop until early 2000. All machining/porting done prior to that were done by Westside Machine. They hired the head porter from Westside once they built the in-house machine shop, and staffed the shop with SAM graduates.

Joe, how come your two buddies aren't posting their griefs? You come on here and chastise others for not "admitting" things, yet your two buddies are guilty of doing the same thing. Are you their self-proclaimed cheerleader?

Obviously, they don't think it would benefit them to post their situations on a message board, so who are you to say its wrong of them to do so? We are big boys and girls here, we can fully make our own decisions on what to post or not to post.

Would the information, good or bad, be helpful to our members? Damn right. But, I don't feel anyone should force an issue that makes someone else uncomfortable about posting.

BTW, where in hell did you come up with this bullshit "$18,000" engine figure? That is FAR more than an engine alone costs, I think you added another 50% just for the hell of it. If you would like a REAL quote on a LS1 422ci setup, feel free to email me. Since you were expecting $18,000 for the engine, you should immediately jump on my offer since its much less. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

FYI, try to find someone with any warranty complaints with MTI since they have offered it on their LS1 motors. Their complaints will not have anything to do with the product or workmanship, but may only be gripes about the time frame to repair stuff, which makes sense because **** breaks unexpectedly and there is no way to schedule it in advance. I'd suggest ALL heavily-modded car owners buy a secondary vehicle. It makes this hobby MUCH more rewarding.

Tony

<small>[ June 11, 2002, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: Nine Ball ]</small>
Nine Ball is offline  
Old 06-11-2002, 11:37 AM
  #59  
TECH Senior Member
 
Colonel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Troy, AL
Posts: 9,246
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts

Default Re: Big bores, head gaskets, droped liners.... It's happening but who will admit it?????

$18,000?!? Goodness! Guess I got a REALLY good deal! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> Seriously Joe, that's way off for a resleeved engine alone.

You think what our sponsors charge for big CI LS1 engines is alot? Check out LPE's prices! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />

I too had a coolant loss problem with my original 422 (not a dropped sleeve) but MTI promptly sent me another. Having a great warranty on a hot rod engine that's known to be raced is pretty awesome if you ask me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" /> BTW, the original block was made back when MTI was still outhouseing their block work. The next block they did themselves and it's been flawless. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />

Yes, I was told to try putting a little stop leak in the first engine. It didn't bother me. Why should it? It didn't hurt a thing.

Folks, this is hot rodding. We spend big bucks on turbos, superchargers, strokers, nitrous systems, drivetrains, etc...and yes, stuff breaks no matter who you buy from or how much you spend. It's just a hot rodding fact of life. When the mods get serious, get a second car. You're going to need it. If you can't, then keep the mods light.

Joe, glad you clarified on your sponsor critiquing sensoring comment. You know we don't play dat **** over here! <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
Colonel is offline  
Old 06-11-2002, 01:12 PM
  #60  
Resident Grump
Thread Starter
 
Joe Kizzire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Walker County Alabama
Posts: 1,050
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: Big bores, head gaskets, droped liners.... It's happening but who will admit it?????

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Terry Burger:
<strong>Joe didn't you put together a 370ci motor that used lots of oil?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No Terry my 370 inch motor does not use alot of oil.... In fact I can't ever remember adding any oil between oil changes. I think you are thinking about Tonys all bore 382. I had a intake port get a crack in it and some coolant got into the combustion chamber. The guys at SAM repaired it on a 1 week turn around and I was back on the road.

Terry your not getting the point.... I build my on motors.... I do not sell mortors to the public so any problems are just my problems... BUT!!!!
When you're selling a product to the pubic it's a whole different game.

About oil consumption... If you'll do away with the POS PVC system and just vent the crankcase pressure to atmosphere you oil consumption will go away.
Joe Kizzire is offline  



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:25 AM.