Cartek H/C package puts out 390 RWHP...Part 2

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Re: Cartek H/C package puts out 390 RWHP...Part 2

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by The Alchemist:
Not to stir the pot, but didn't JS and 2002SS have very similar packages installed around the same time and dyno very similarly?

I know JS had bigger long tubes, but even he said that they didn't gain him that much over the ported macs which is what Dan (2002SS) had.

I think that the difference isn't a percentage, but rather a fixed number, i.e. if the transmission requires 10-15hp to rotate, it will require that if the motor makes 300hp or 400hp.

Just food for thought. I like the way this post is going with informative posts rather than just flames.<hr /></blockquote>Yes this is very informing.I am learning more about calculus than I ever did in high school.

[ June 10, 2002, 10:38 PM: Message edited by: The Booker man ]

06-10-2002, 11:23 PM

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Re: Cartek H/C package puts out 390 RWHP...Part 2

<blockquote>quote:<hr />3-5hp to oil the entire engine <hr /></blockquote>Where did you get this figure. Are you guessing, I think so. Look at what you save when you disconnect power steering. That's no where near 130 psi and it's underdriven to begin with as opposed to direct drive. Then follow that up with the larger recipricating internals. Terry, I just don't see it. Do you have any proof, or do we just have you flapping your gums?

There is to much weighed against your statement to even begin to accept it. Get some back to back dyno results before you quote anymore guesstamites.

Max <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

06-10-2002, 11:35 PM

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Re: Cartek H/C package puts out 390 RWHP...Part 2

Funny Max looks like the consensus here is I'm right. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> Don't worry I'm sure you'll come up with another excuse for why this stage 2 heads/cam package with a locked converter makes only 390rwhp.

06-10-2002, 11:41 PM

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Re: Cartek H/C package puts out 390 RWHP...Part 2

So tell me Terry who is agreeing with you here? I see no one agreeing with you. The only thing for sure is you need to come up with some hard evidence. You have nothing.

06-10-2002, 11:42 PM

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Re: Cartek H/C package puts out 390 RWHP...Part 2

Ooops, I almost forgot this:

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

06-10-2002, 11:47 PM

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Re: Cartek H/C package puts out 390 RWHP...Part 2

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Wide Open Throttle:
So tell me Terry who is agreeing with you here? I see no one agreeing with you. The only thing for sure is you need to come up with some hard evidence. You have nothing.<hr /></blockquote>I am agreeing with him.Your car dynos 460hp and runs at 124mph and is more aerodynamic.His car dynos less and runs 1mph less so that is telling me his car must be as effiecent but the power is just not showing some how.No flames intended but the vette is a m6 terrys is a a4 and it runs the same especially if you consider where he runs and the DA.Again no flames yalls cars have always put out the numbers but that just proves to me that an a4 is some how underrated on the dyno.Any way good info gentlemen.

Oh and keep it clean.

[ June 10, 2002, 11:48 PM: Message edited by: The Booker man ]

06-10-2002, 11:58 PM

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Re: Cartek H/C package puts out 390 RWHP...Part 2

<blockquote>quote:<hr />
A locked 4L60E is VERY close to the efficency of a manual trans
<hr /></blockquote> <blockquote>quote:<hr />
I can buy the fact that a locked down light converter is "as" efficient
<hr /></blockquote>Even the most skeptical like Rageman here is willing to admit its not a huge factor:

<blockquote>quote:<hr />
I believe it IS a factor. Although not as big a factor as a few people may have previously thought.
<hr /></blockquote>So with that said I think we've all moved on Max. Care to join us? So what went wrong with this guys new heads/cam package? Now I read he just blew a headgasket?

06-11-2002, 12:09 AM

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Re: Cartek H/C package puts out 390 RWHP...Part 2

Oh and keep it clean.<hr /></blockquote>this case is not enough for me. 2 different cars even body styles can put out different #'s hell the same parts put on different cars will give different #'s. whats to say the a4 car isn't making 10 more flywheel HP and losing 3 % more in the drive train. making it run the same #. all the hard proof IE tranny conversions have netted + HP for the m6 side.

also saying 3 % is moot is wrong thats 12 HP at the wheels on a 400RWHP car not moot to me. but i am new to this LOL JMHO!

Give me hard proof same car same setup

06-11-2002, 12:28 AM

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Re: Cartek H/C package puts out 390 RWHP...Part 2

Old news. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Be that as it may, I must point out how funny it is that A4 guys are unwilling to accept that when they lock their light weight converters their dyno numbers are on par with M6 numbers. I guess they take great comfort in having that "excuse" around?

I put out 435rwhp locked in my A4. Do you think the same combo would put out 450rwhp in an M6? I don't think so. All the MMS stage2x-229 cam combos put out 430-440rwhp in M6's!

06-11-2002, 12:49 AM

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Re: Cartek H/C package puts out 390 RWHP...Part 2

Oh and keep it clean.<hr /></blockquote>Terry has a 3300# with him in it and the EWP that is worth 25 RWHP if there is no belt to drive any accessories with. Rom has a stock weight C5 with all accessories in place and if you want to compare apples to apples, can you think of any other H/C C5s going 11.0s-11.6s 123-126 mph? Cartek has four now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

06-11-2002, 01:08 AM

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Re: Cartek H/C package puts out 390 RWHP...Part 2

[/QUOTE]Terry has a 3300# with him in it and the EWP that is worth 25 RWHP if there is no belt to drive any accessories with. Rom has a stock weight C5 with all accessories in place and if you want to compare apples to apples, can you think of any other H/C C5s going 11.0s-11.6s 123-126 mph? Cartek has four now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> [/QB][/QUOTE]Yes MTI has a few I beleive and so does ARE and a few other sponsors.Not everyone posts their times bro kind of like me.Its usually because we are very slow and are ashamed to tell <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> .Also your not proving anything to me by saying that his car has this and that....All I am saying is the two trannys must be very close to efficency because your car puts down more power and its more aerodynamic and runs the same as his so they have to be equal bro.There is no other way to explain it.I know you guys dyno is not off so that is ruled out.What else can there be?

06-11-2002, 01:08 AM

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Re: Cartek H/C package puts out 390 RWHP...Part 2

Ha ha ha ha......WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! Just as long as you don't accuse me of AGREEING with you, Terry! That would be tragic. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

I just want to quote myself again here:

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by RAGEman:
I'll buy the statement: "Automatics are more efficient than you think" before I'll buy the statement: "The locked A4 tranny will out dyno a M6 in most cases," which is what your original statement was.<hr /></blockquote>and...

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I wouldn't say the difference in efficiency between an automatic tranny and a manual would be "moot." In my observation, the T56 is around 3-4% more efficient than the 4L60E. This would make Peter's horsepower curve peak between 401.7 and 405 RWHP, if he had a 6-speed car. Which, for those not mathematically-inclined, would be a gain somewhere between 11.7 and 15 RWHP. That still may not be a number that is "up to par" with some of Cartek's other dyno's, but that is a different argument than saying the difference in efficiency between the A4 and the M6 is "moot."<hr /></blockquote>Thanks.

06-11-2002, 01:21 AM

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Re: Cartek H/C package puts out 390 RWHP...Part 2

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by The Booker man:
All I am saying is the two trannys must be very close to efficency because your car puts down more power and its more aerodynamic and runs the same as his so they have to be equal bro.<hr /></blockquote><img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Dude, you might as well have just said 2 + 2 HAS to equal 5 because it doesn't equal 3.

06-11-2002, 01:28 AM

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Re: Cartek H/C package puts out 390 RWHP...Part 2

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by The Booker man:
<hr /></blockquote>Terry has a 3300# with him in it and the EWP that is worth 25 RWHP if there is no belt to drive any accessories with. Rom has a stock weight C5 with all accessories in place and if you want to compare apples to apples, can you think of any other H/C C5s going 11.0s-11.6s 123-126 mph? Cartek has four now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> [/QUOTE]Yes MTI has a few I beleive and so does ARE and a few other sponsors.Not everyone posts their times bro kind of like me.Its usually because we are very slow and are ashamed to tell <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> .Also your not proving anything to me by saying that his car has this and that....All I am saying is the two trannys must be very close to efficency because your car puts down more power and its more aerodynamic and runs the same as his so they have to be equal bro.There is no other way to explain it.I know you guys dyno is not off so that is ruled out.What else can there be?[/QB][/QUOTE]

The two cars are not the same and you must consider drive train loss of the C5's independent rear. This is why C5s should be compared to C5s. Like I said, I don't know of any other C5s running those numbers and mph with the exception of Cartek. The only other C5 that is close is Darth Vetters at 11.59 @ 122. PERIOD. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

06-11-2002, 01:28 AM

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Re: Cartek H/C package puts out 390 RWHP...Part 2

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by RAGEman:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by The Booker man:
All I am saying is the two trannys must be very close to efficency because your car puts down more power and its more aerodynamic and runs the same as his so they have to be equal bro.<hr /></blockquote><img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Dude, you might as well have just said 2 + 2 HAS to equal 5 because it doesn't equal 3.<hr /></blockquote><img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" /> Never mind I see that I cant win so to each his own.It just doesnt add up to me is all.Hey rage man 2+2 is not 5 its 6 okay get it right.

[ June 11, 2002, 01:32 AM: Message edited by: The Booker man ]

06-11-2002, 02:30 AM

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Re: Cartek H/C package puts out 390 RWHP...Part 2

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Terry Burger:
If you post all your mods I can help you get more power out of it. Most guys with the 224v3.1 cam / stage 2 heads see 400-420rwhp depending on other mods and tranny type.<hr /></blockquote>Now I'm all confused Terry, the above quote was to a fellow MMS customer that makes 380 rwhp with an M6 and extensive bolt-ons. Are you saying that you make more power with the M6 on that post? Maybe he has broken valve springs? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Hey, spring break is not in Florida any more it's in California. LOL. burump bump.

06-11-2002, 07:59 AM

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Re: Cartek H/C package puts out 390 RWHP...Part 2

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Wide Open Throttle:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Terry Burger:
If you post all your mods I can help you get more power out of it. Most guys with the 224v3.1 cam / stage 2 heads see 400-420rwhp depending on other mods and tranny type.<hr /></blockquote>Now I'm all confused Terry, the above quote was to a fellow MMS customer that makes 380 rwhp with an M6 and extensive bolt-ons. Are you saying that you make more power with the M6 on that post? Maybe he has broken valve springs? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Hey, spring break is not in Florida any more it's in California. LOL. burump bump.<hr /></blockquote>thats awsome 2 different post 2 different ideas. why would you need to know tranny type if it is mute. looks like he shot himself i n the foot.

06-11-2002, 10:59 AM

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