For the experts: What are the LS1's weaknesses, and how to counter them?

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Re: For the experts: What are the LS1's weaknesses, and how to counter them?

I predict someone is about to get 0wn3d by a Feldmonster...LOL!

06-24-2002, 06:59 PM

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Re: For the experts: What are the LS1's weaknesses, and how to counter them?

i agree. the 2jz-gte ( the motor put in the TT supras) are crap..
look at this pathetic dyno.. its of a stock bottom end supra..
<img src="http://www.vache.org/supra/graphics/turbos/T88_JR1.jpg" alt=" - " />

here is another pathetic stock bottom end dyno..
<img src="http://www.vache.org/supra/graphics/turbos/T88_A2.jpg" alt=" - " />
he is slow.. mid 10s running out of fuel on the top end.. POS motors..

another stock bottom end supra to laugh at..
<img src="http://www.vache.org/supra/graphics/turbos/2835_DM2.jpg" alt=" - " />

also. look at SW;s supra.. what a hunk of junk.. 9.83@154 in a show quality supra..oh.. also stock bottom end..

lol
if ignorance was bliss.. most of you would be orgasmic

06-24-2002, 07:00 PM

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Re: For the experts: What are the LS1's weaknesses, and how to counter them?

Stand back folks, give him some room, he'll be here all week! LOL!

06-24-2002, 07:05 PM

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Re: For the experts: What are the LS1's weaknesses, and how to counter them?

oh.. and a Brand new from the factory complete 2jz short block is $2200.. since the supra's last year was 02 in japan.. they are in abundance.

oh and the topping of your ignorance.. the Skyline and the Siliva are as common in japan ( their place of origin) as f-bodys and 5 liters are here.. in the skyline and the supra are japans equivilent of an f-body

[ June 24, 2002, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: White_lightning ]

06-24-2002, 07:07 PM

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Re: For the experts: What are the LS1's weaknesses, and how to counter them?

Don't you mean "litre"? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Lane - sorry for ruining your thread. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

06-24-2002, 09:41 PM

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ShiznityZ28

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Re: For the experts: What are the LS1's weaknesses, and how to counter them?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Damian:
The intakes aren't as "restrictive" as some people make them out to be. When comparing flow #'s, just a stock LS1 intake will walk all over most other intakes. They aren't that "bad" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Definately oil pumps, valve springs, rod bolts, pushrods..

Josh<hr /></blockquote>granted they flow good but if you look at the design #7 can be a week point. I have been noticing on a wet shot the fuel has to travel pretty far to get to 7. i have seen 3 or more blocks at jasons with # 7 gone cause off n2o

06-25-2002, 12:20 AM

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Re: For the experts: What are the LS1's weaknesses, and how to counter them?

Well, these characters obviously push their bullets ALOT harder than intended. The stock equipment is more than adequate for the intended 350RWHP task. The oil pumps have been known to fail suddenly, but the numbers of failed parts don't really qualify them as "failure prone".

Weak springs, true. But when did Chevy ever design an adequate spring?

Rockers don't fail in great enough numbers to suggest it's more than an acceptable failure rate WITH STOCK LIFT CAMS. I haven't heard of any failing without some help from the "more power" virus. Like .550 and above lifts with "slam on the seat" ramp rates.

Rod bolts are adequate for the stock power, but I'd look into some replacements for significant power upgrades.

Remember, these guys push the envelope. So calling stock parts "crap" is just an uninformed, and subjective opinion.

There is WAY more engineering involved in these engines, especially in pairing weight from individual components, than some "slam-in-a-cam", "whine-for-forged-pistons" part-timer could EVER understand. YOUR government has imposed these weaknesses by way of emmissions and minumum fuel economy regulations, not the automotive designers.

NO stock engine is built to withstand 2x horsepower increases or 1000 max RPM increases without shortblock work, just so the VAST MINORITY of us can modify them with no thought of shortblock longevity. That sort of factory spec would push the cost of engines out of reach. The LS1/LS6, in that case, would just be admired by guys like us, because only multi-millionaires could afford them... It's just ignorant and obsurd to expect that sort of engine integrity in a stock power plant.

Get real! Try to get reasonable in expectations.

SC

[ June 24, 2002, 12:45 PM: Message edited by: SS00Blue ]

06-25-2002, 10:57 AM

#28

TrahnZam WS6

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Re: For the experts: What are the LS1's weaknesses, and how to counter them?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by SS00Blue:
Good point. I stand corrected as my 4G63 did just that. But remember that those Mitsu 4-cylinders are the single strongest production 4-cylinders ever made, from 89-93, that is. 2Gs are garbage. So I understand that one can go from 195 to 400 on a turbo 4G63, or in my case 460AWHP.<hr /></blockquote>God damn, you are ignorant, this is gonna take a while...

What's your point that its the "single strongest production 4-cylinder"? You said "NO stock engine is built to withstand 2x horsepower increases", and then when someone brings up an example you just try to brush it off with that WEAK argument? LOL, moving on...

<blockquote>quote:<hr />
Now let's discuss going from 350RWHP to 700RWHP with LS1s...<hr /></blockquote>Sure, let's. But an LS1 makes roughly 300 rwhp in stock form, so doubling that would get...600 rwhp...

<blockquote>quote:<hr />
Let's remember that there are many examples of FI LS1s that are putting down 500-600 RWHP, just as there are many Jap examples. You've just served to prove my point. Thank you.<hr /></blockquote>How many? Have you ever read through our FI section? All you will read about is problem after problem with FI LS1-derived setups, and no way in hell are we going to believe that a 600 rwhp FI setup will live for any length of time on stock internals. You've just served to prove my point <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />
Face it. If you suggest the stock bottom end on these motors are "crap", then you've made an ignorant statement, just as that which was stated above.<hr /></blockquote>Umm, yeah. The stock bottom end is not crap, but it will not support 2x the power, period.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />
Boy, you guys just want to rag on anything, don't you...

C'Mon. You just keep making irrational, unfounded statements about the superior engineering in the LS1, and I'll keep defending them.

I admit that I am not up on the 2jzgte. I think that was the motor in the last Supra, if I'm not mistaken. A fine motor, no doubt. $42K was the tag on that in the mid-90s, right? So today we're talking $55-65K? You've just proven another of my points, where I said it would be cost prohibitive to reinforce an engine to that degree. Thank you.

Those vehicles were real terrors, and still are today. But extremely expensive! I only paid $25 for my '00 SS and received one of the finest powerplants ever unleashed on the street. I don't remember many powerplants from any era that laid down numbers like the LS1/LS6 (REAL SUBSTANTIATED NUMBERS, that is.)

OBTW. I've never heard of a 960hp (320hp x 3)Supras on a stock block. Not for long anyhow. I take this as a freak or a major exaggeration. Then again, the 2jzgte was a great engine, and the LS1 is just "crap", right? And by the way, how much for a factory new example of the 2jzgte today? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>As far as your "cost prohibitive" argument against the 2jz, did you ever think about the vette? Oh yeah, its got an lS1 too, and is similarly priced with the supra...doh! OBTW, there are PLENTY of high-power supras on stock LONGBLOCKS. I have ridden in three that make over 700 rwhp without a single problem, some of them like that for three years now. Realisticly, I wouldn't trust an LS1's stock bottom end to hold up after three years at heads cam level shifting at 6600, but that's another argument. Like Feldman said, a fresh 2jz is $2200 from your local Toyota dealer.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Trahn Zam WS6:
skyline's RB26DETT and the Japanese-spec Silvia's SR20DET. Both examples of motors built for twice the power in stock form and de-engineered for public use.<hr /></blockquote> <blockquote>quote:<hr />
ROTF!!! Now you guys are throwing purpose-built low-volume factory racers at me. How much for the American import version of the Silvia. LOL! You are comparing factory race cars to high volume production cars... Quit embarrassing yourselves.<hr /></blockquote>Factory racers? What the hell do you think an LS1 is? It was meant to be driven hard, face it. The Silvia is just the Japanese version of our 240sx, and is an extremely common vehicle on the streets of Japan. The only reason why the import version of it would be expensive is the company that imports them would have to pay for:
A) Shipping to the US
B) wreck several for crash testing purposes
C) Alter emmissions equipment, convert to LH drive or whatever else they think is necessary
Why don't you actually do some research rather than make "irrational, unfounded statements" and come back. Thanks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

[ June 25, 2002, 11:52 AM: Message edited by: TrahnZam WS6 ]

06-25-2002, 11:57 AM

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Re: For the experts: What are the LS1's weaknesses, and how to counter them?

ouch.. looks like you got 0WNED by a fellow ls1 memeber.. that must suck

06-25-2002, 02:45 PM

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Re: For the experts: What are the LS1's weaknesses, and how to counter them?

For all the Supra haters this is a Stock Short Block 2JZ-GTE @ 38 psi. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

First Graph is a Motor + SP88 Turbo
Second Graph is Motor + SP88 Turbo + NOS Spool Up Kit

<img src="http://www.supraforums.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=474047" alt=" - " />

<img src="http://www.supraforums.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=474064" alt=" - " />

[ June 25, 2002, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: Y2K_WS6_T/A ]

06-25-2002, 03:22 PM

#31

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Re: For the experts: What are the LS1's weaknesses, and how to counter them?

Looks like the NOS really helps on the lower end.

06-25-2002, 03:39 PM

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Re: For the experts: What are the LS1's weaknesses, and how to counter them?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by White_lightning:
i agree. the 2jz-gte ( the motor put in the TT supras) are crap..<hr /></blockquote>I would expect this from you, since I've already raped you for your stupidity... But, I never made this statement. I said the Supra motors were "terrors" for sure.

So much for WhiteLunkhead. (OBTW, here's a man that is stupid enough to believe that he knows ANYTHING about the LS1 as he is simply an L owner. I would, however, warn against arguing with him as to L's, as he has only ONE expertise, that being IT.)

Remember, boys, I'm defending the engines you've purchased. They're not "crap" as OTHERS have stated. I haven't. I've not made any desparaging statement about ANY engine. Others have.

There are fine examples of the Supra engine. It's a great motor. $2200 for a stock example is a good price. I am humbled to find out that there are as many factory installed, bone-stock 2jz-gte and 4G63s available to the public as the LS1/LS6. Otherwise, of course, they couldn't be compared, because the conversation STILL revolves around present-day engines. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />

To the person that suggested the LS6 was a race engine, the LS6 isn't race purpose any more than the L 5.4 S/C or the 03 Cobra S/C. Even LESS so, since the LS6 is available to anyone. It's NOT limited production and NEVER meant for a race track, like SOME previously mentioned. That's evident by the fact that any that wish may order, all parts are available in production type and no restriction exists on the LS6. Not like an "American" Sivlia, right? I can get an LS6 Vette ANY TIME I DESIRE. If YOU can't, then let me know.

I'll state my only point again for the mentally impaired:

The LS1/LS6 is NOT "CRAP" in any way and can withstand a great deal more power than intended as stock. That one can find a single fine example outside the LS family is admirable.

The dyno posts are lovely, but prove nothing with respect to the argument that the LS1 can with stand a great deal more than stock power. Whether the posted engine is a factory-original, bone-stock example can NEVER be established. Certainly, the suggestion that a bone-stock, never-rebuilt engine can withstand 3x power for any length of time is an unusual claim. If true, it only serves to back up the low production and high-dollar nature of the Supra. As I said, it is a terror! And again, it shows the expense of a fully reinforced engine (at $42k, mid-90's... $65k today(?)... NO ONE has disputed this fact.)

If an individual has destroyed an LS1/LS6, they have either exceeded the expected limits of individual parts (an exceptional accomplishment) or they're too stupid to be working on a power plant of any type.

Sure, many have applied too much Nitrous, but, are they suggesting that the LS1 is weak, or that they found an exceptionally high boundary of LS1 power, such as 700-1000 rwtq at 2000 RPM?

Bye,

SC

PS- Anyone that takes time to read the entire thread should recognize the reasonable nature of my statements, and the stupidity of those opposed. Feel free to post, because I've firmly established my point that the LS1/LS6 is NOT "crap" in any way, as my opposers have ALL stated. That's the only point I cared to make. Thus I'll not be posting in this thread again.

I wish all intelligent people well with the stupid who so firmly abound.

[ June 25, 2002, 04:19 PM: Message edited by: SS00Blue ]

06-25-2002, 04:15 PM

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Re: For the experts: What are the LS1's weaknesses, and how to counter them?

Raped me on my stupidity?? what are you talking about??? LOL.. you sir, are an idiot.
how do you know what i own? or what i have owned.. i had 3 f-bodys.. including one of the FIRST ls1s to make over 420 rwhp with just heads/cam..
i sold it to buy a 98 supra TT.. thank you *******, drive threw.
d.

[ June 25, 2002, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: White_lightning ]

06-25-2002, 04:21 PM

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Re: For the experts: What are the LS1's weaknesses, and how to counter them?

Previous posts, both here and at SVT Performance.

Deny, because you lie. No one is deceived...

SC <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

[ June 25, 2002, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: SS00Blue ]

06-25-2002, 04:22 PM

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Re: For the experts: What are the LS1's weaknesses, and how to counter them?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by SS00Blue:
Previous posts, both here and at SVT Performance.

Deny, because you lie. No one is decieved...

SC <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>**** head.. i have NEVER POSTE Don svt performance.. i have NEVER OWNED a ford. you sir. are an idiot.
D.
the Feldmonster

[ June 25, 2002, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: White_lightning ]

06-25-2002, 04:25 PM

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Re: For the experts: What are the LS1's weaknesses, and how to counter them?

through

06-25-2002, 04:26 PM

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Re: For the experts: What are the LS1's weaknesses, and how to counter them?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by White_lightning:
**** head.. i have NEVER POSTE Don svt performance.. i have NEVER OWNED a ford. you sir. are an idiot.
D.
the Feldmonster<hr /></blockquote>You're VERY succinct. How convincing you must seem. Do your posts make you feel intelligent?

Rave on MacDuff. None of your entries help your initial stupidity...

SC

06-25-2002, 04:28 PM

#38