Need pointers for cam with best response
Need pointers for cam with best response I have an 02' WS6 6-speed and I am looking to increase throttle response and improve horsepower as well. After driving my moms 99 TA, I realize how much of a difference there is in the two ls1 cams. Her throttle response is great and it makes it a blast to drive. Both cars have the same mods, but mine has a ported throttle body which helped a little.
Here are the specs on the two ls1 cams.
1998 - 2000 Fbody
202/210 int/exh @ 0.05" duration
0.496" / 0.496" int/exh lift
116 LSA
2001 - 2002 Fbody
197/207 int/exh @ 0.05" duration
0.467" / 0.479" int/exh lift
116 LSA
As you can see the older cam has more duration and lift over the "truck" cam in the newer ls1's. But supposedly this newer cam got rid of the egr system and gave a little more top end power.
I am on stock manifolds with gutted cats by the way. It sounds great so please do not tell me to get longtubes, I dont care for them.
I want excellent throttle response and obviously it doesnt take a big cam to do that. Can someone point me towards a few cams that have what I am looking for? I would like to keep the lift under .600" so I dont have to use dual valve springs.
Thanks in advance.
Here are the specs on the two ls1 cams.
1998 - 2000 Fbody
202/210 int/exh @ 0.05" duration
0.496" / 0.496" int/exh lift
116 LSA
2001 - 2002 Fbody
197/207 int/exh @ 0.05" duration
0.467" / 0.479" int/exh lift
116 LSA
As you can see the older cam has more duration and lift over the "truck" cam in the newer ls1's. But supposedly this newer cam got rid of the egr system and gave a little more top end power.
I am on stock manifolds with gutted cats by the way. It sounds great so please do not tell me to get longtubes, I dont care for them.
I want excellent throttle response and obviously it doesnt take a big cam to do that. Can someone point me towards a few cams that have what I am looking for? I would like to keep the lift under .600" so I dont have to use dual valve springs.
Thanks in advance.
First of all, the 1998-2000 cam is ground on a 119 LSA, not 116. The 2001+ cam is on 116, and that is how GM was able to ditch the EGR.
Second, the miniscule difference between the two should not make any major difference in driving dynamics. If anything, the tighter LSA and lower duration of the later cam should trump the early one, that is one of the reasons for the change, to increase torque.
I suspect that you may be noticing the slight difference in the throttle cable cam, which is more progressive on earlier cars. Pop the hoods open and see if you can spot the difference in shape.
If your goal is to make more power without headers, look no farther than Thunder Racing's CheaTR cam. It is designed to work with manifolds and cats. Do some searching for more info on this one. Patrick G on this forum has achieved 400rwhp with AFR 205 heads, this cam and stock manifolds and converters flowing through a SLP dual/dual cat back.
Good Luck!
edit - corrected rwhp above
Second, the miniscule difference between the two should not make any major difference in driving dynamics. If anything, the tighter LSA and lower duration of the later cam should trump the early one, that is one of the reasons for the change, to increase torque.
I suspect that you may be noticing the slight difference in the throttle cable cam, which is more progressive on earlier cars. Pop the hoods open and see if you can spot the difference in shape.
If your goal is to make more power without headers, look no farther than Thunder Racing's CheaTR cam. It is designed to work with manifolds and cats. Do some searching for more info on this one. Patrick G on this forum has achieved 400rwhp with AFR 205 heads, this cam and stock manifolds and converters flowing through a SLP dual/dual cat back.
Good Luck!
edit - corrected rwhp above
Last edited by hammertime; Feb 13, 2007 at 11:24 PM.
Thanks for the correction, I did a little more searching and the older cam is a 119 lsa. I will check out the throttle cables tonight, that never came to mind. If say the older throttle cam has more progression, what would have to be done to convert mine? Different TB?
I have known about the cheatTR for quite some time now and have always been interested in it. Just have to shell out the cash for the dual springs.
The thing is, I know my car is faster but my moms feels faster around town and it is more fun. Hell if I can convert throttle bodies or something, I will be happy! I will look more into that.
Thanks a lot for your help.
I have known about the cheatTR for quite some time now and have always been interested in it. Just have to shell out the cash for the dual springs.
The thing is, I know my car is faster but my moms feels faster around town and it is more fun. Hell if I can convert throttle bodies or something, I will be happy! I will look more into that.
Thanks a lot for your help.
I just read in the external engine sticky that the 98-99 TB cams are smaller which makes perfect sense now. Anyone know if I can just swap one over to my ls6 intake?
Edit: Nevermind about the swapping question, it is obvious now, if they werent swappable, 98-99 owners would have to swap throttle bodies when buying an ls6 intake.
Edit: Nevermind about the swapping question, it is obvious now, if they werent swappable, 98-99 owners would have to swap throttle bodies when buying an ls6 intake.
I see that they recommend duals and titanium retainers for the CheaTR, but not for the Old Man Cam, despite what I thought was the same lobe...wonder what gives.
918's are rated to .600, and I've heard they were rated at .615 until the 921 duals were released. Just wondering if you could get by with 918's and titanium retainers?
918's are rated to .600, and I've heard they were rated at .615 until the 921 duals were released. Just wondering if you could get by with 918's and titanium retainers?
If you want to swap cams, a smaller duration (relative to the big cams you see discussed on here) with an early IVC is what you want. A split pattern is in order since you have stock manifolds, although no cats reduces the amount of split needed.
Its more than just lift, the cheater cam has pretty aggressive ramps on the 214 lobe, so I wouldn't skimp on the springs.
Its more than just lift, the cheater cam has pretty aggressive ramps on the 214 lobe, so I wouldn't skimp on the springs.
You should check out our Z+220 camshaft! It's 220/224 .551"/.551" 114LSA. It takes advantage of Crane's Z-lobes that are getting very popular as of late because of their ability to make good area under the curve! Let me know if I can help you with anything, we also offer all of the other parts needed to do the swap from springs, pushrods, timing set, and of course the GM gaskets!
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The stock exhaust manifolds are the choke point in the system and need a little earlier exhaust valve opening point and a little longer duration than if you were running headers. Also, you really need to limit your overlap to less than 0 degrees at .050" to work best with manifolds...otherwise excessive overlap will contaminate your intake charge and reduce your power.
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2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
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Joined: Mar 2006
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From: Issaquah, Wa.
I dont get It?? I just orderd my cam and heads last night and it took me YEARS to prepare,.....FIRST,..lower temps (vet.) 2, big Intake 3, hedders, and Hy-flow cats, big X-Pipe and giant B&B Bullet twins 
NOW, I will get the most out of any further attemps at moving any fule air mixture. NO ONE can get where they want to go with just a single applcation cam ect I here a lot of "cam only" stuff but It is never on a stock set up. you just gots ta open her up.
NOW, I will get the most out of any further attemps at moving any fule air mixture. NO ONE can get where they want to go with just a single applcation cam ect I here a lot of "cam only" stuff but It is never on a stock set up. you just gots ta open her up.
Originally Posted by vetred
NO ONE can get where they want to go with just a single applcation cam ect I here a lot of "cam only" stuff but It is never on a stock set up. you just gots ta open her up.
http://www.guerragroup.com/2000TA_dyno5.jpg
http://www.guerragroup.com/CheaTR.htm
http://www.thunderracing.com/catalog...vid=3&pcid=289
Something to be said for stealth, not having to do all the exhaust work, passing emissions and not worrying about inspections.
Originally Posted by Matt @ SDPC
You should check out our Z+220 camshaft! It's 220/224 .551"/.551" 114LSA. It takes advantage of Crane's Z-lobes that are getting very popular as of late because of their ability to make good area under the curve! Let me know if I can help you with anything, we also offer all of the other parts needed to do the swap from springs, pushrods, timing set, and of course the GM gaskets!