Jason99T/A

iTrader: (21)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Jsears8:
<strong>Vince, I can't believe what you have went through. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" /> If it were me I would remove those heads ASAP and get a set of 6.0L GTP heads with Comp 987s. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> You would be happy and done with it!

Justin</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Damn Justin, we think alike. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Good luck getting it all worked out.

Jason

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

Justin I am waiting for you to send me the FREE heads because you have love for me.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

MelloYellow

The only heads I know I can trust are CNC Orlando. The rest of the tuners are random marketing BS/Hype. You never know what you'll get.

Damian

iTrader: (89)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If my heads suck how did Ryan
Karasek run 11.95 on the motor </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Stock headed cars are running much quicker than that, and some stock internal cars. 11.95 is not that impressive...no pun intended <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

From what I see here, this is a similar situation to what I went through with Star. They promised me a product that was new, but would work. When it blew to peices and did not perform as promised, they point the fingers everywhere else and "washed their hands" of the promises made. Pretty shitty if you ask me. For a shop that claims to do so well at what they do, you would figure they would at least go the extra mile to make sure they're products made their customers happy. Especially when someone like Vince can put them in the spotlight...

Vince, sorry you had to learn the hard way buddy, but this exact reason is why you go with a shop that provide products that have been proven to work, and also show to care about their customers and go the extra mile to make them happy.....Thunder, MTI, ARE, I could keep going..

Josh

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

I hear you Josh. This was a lesson learned. I am happy I have pretty good support.. Norris Motorsports built me a sweet shortblock and Pete @ CNC did the best they could to salvage the heads. All my friends that I have met and the ones I have not met. I really appreciate all your help..

JasonShort

iTrader: (242)

Again Vince, I am sorry to hear this. If someone can relate to having a set of ghetto heads from a shop it is me. It is a hard lesson to learn, but at least it is a lesson learned! We all make mistakes....the important thing is that we learn from them.

Now I have heads that work, but I am broke LOL

Jason

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

Lesson Learned. I am broke as well. Atleast till my next paycheck <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> I will get things in order and see what Thunder Racing can get out of these heads with ls1edit..

Ryan K

iTrader: (11)

K, So, you didn't do the check of the rocker arm to valve spring clearance?

http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/eb50232.htm

-OR-

http://www.cranecams.com/morvtfaq.htm

From Crane Cams Website:
"Besides Coil Bind, What Other Types of Mechanical Interference Should You Look Out For?

When you increase the valve lift with a bigger cam or increased rocker arm ratio you must be sure that there is no interference between any of the moving parts. Some of the components that must be inspected for clearance are:

1. The distance from the bottom of the valve spring retainer and the top of the valve stem guide, or the top of the valve stem seal must be equal to the net valve lift of the valve plus at least .060” more for clearance.

2. When using rocker arms mounted on a stud, the length of the slot in the rocker arm body must be inspected to be sure it is long enough to avoid binding on the stud. The ends of the slot must be at least .060” away from the stud when the rocker is at full valve lift and when the valve is closed.

Crane Cams offers steel long slot and extra long slot rocker arms to relieve this interference problem. Aluminum roller rocker arms may be required to provide sufficient travel on larger lift camshafts.

3. The underside of the rocker arm body cannot touch the valve spring retainer. You will need at least .040” clearance to the retainer throughout the full movement of the rocker arm. If necessary, a different shape retainer or rocker arm design will be required. In some cases, installing a lash cap on the tip of the valve stem can provide the clearance required.

4. Valve to piston clearance must be checked to be sure there is sufficient clearance. The intake valve must have at least .100” clearance to the piston and at least .120” clearance on the exhaust valve.

The truth is out there. The deal is its BOTH of you two's fault. You for not checking, Dave's for not knowing.

Ryan K.
And on that note, I did pimp Flow-Technics when they were offered by, a at that time, a sponsor. My first line of the last post was meant to convey that I don't go out of my way to pimp a non-sponsor.

RyanJ

ryan, vince....still....2.08's in 5.3 heads? i remember seeing a pic of how cramped 2.02/1.57's looked in 5.3 chambers (yes, im sure you had chamber work).

NataSS Inc

iTrader: (9)

Sorry to hear about your trouble with flowtechnics. When I first started looking into heads and cam packages That was one of the first places I looked. One of the Mods on this site is using flowtechnics heads and I also know the Mod personally. When I started talking HP #'s with him and then comparing them to some of the #'s that people on this board were getting from different products, they were grossly different. In some cases almost 50RWHP in difference. I finally had to squeeze the wallet and pony up the cash for a big dog set of heads. I am glad that I did my homework before I went with flowtechnics. Like they always say....You get what you pay for and speed costs money.

Cant wait.....3 weeks till cam and heads arrive <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

You made a wise decision. I wish I would have made the same..

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

This was an email when the heads were sent back the 2nd time. Dave@Flow Technics is speaking.

They must have misunderstood my instruction on delivery. I asked for 2 day service. I milled off .042". Your friends calculations can't be right because the piston sticks up out of the bore. It might even cc out to 12.0 to 1.
----- Original Message -----
From: Vince Moore
To: David Endrigo
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 6:55 AM
Subject: Re: Parts & things

The heads are already here... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
----- Original Message -----
From: David Endrigo
To: Vince Moore
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 3:20 PM
Subject: Parts & things

The bolts that hold the intake rocker need to have RTV
put on the threads because the bolt hole is open to the intake port. I think the rockers will be strong enough.
There is always a possibility of any thing breaking. But
the likelihood is not there.

Notice in this email he states he milled .042 off. He told another person he took off .060. Thats a big difference..

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

This is a response to me being fed up with the heads and Flow Technics reply.

I'm very sorry you feel the way you do. I never misled
you. And yes, I have a lot to learn about many things. That's
the way I approach life. Unfortunately for the rest of the world, you all know so much that you overlook simple things
like rocker arm clearance, forgeting to hook up an injector,
driving clear across the state with a miss in the engine.
If you or your friend thought it was so funny about my
lifter changing comment, then I have every right to roll on the floor over the fact that your installer does'nt know how to adjust lifters, or a car owner that can't change spark plugs.
I work on many different types of heads. There's a thousand little quirks to remember, and the fact that you reacted the way you did showed your lack of tolerance and
that there was no relationship to you and I.
People have asked me about your project. And I can tell you that it's not me they're laughing at.

In all fairness you have not had the best support possible. I think what you are going to find is that ZO6
short block sticks the piston up higher then standard engines. And with the increased valve diameter P/V became
an issue. Who knew that? I'm sure you think I should have.
It's true I've built many engines, but in your case I'm not the engine builder, I'm the head porter. There is a difference.
Someday you'll find out it was'nt fault. I can only say
that I hope you don't get the same rap at your work as I'm
getting here. Good luck to you.
----- Original Message -----
From: Vince Moore
To: David Endrigo
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 9:22 PM
Subject: Re: So far so good..

I am sending out the money for the lifters tomorrow.. I have decided spending anymore money in this project other than getting the car back to where it was before I purchased the heads is a continued shooting in the wind. I am going to take the Stage 2's off, change the lifters, and putting my stock heads back on.. I did not sign on for Research and Development. I have already spent over a thousand researching a preexisting problem. Even though you think I should have went with the $800 adjustable valvetrain that no one else has to use to get their heads to work, I still feel that you the engine builder should have had more knowledge in this area than you lead me to believe. Dave you seem like a wonderful guy, but when it comes to LS1's you still have a lot to learn. When you said that I should be able to change the lifters just by taking the intake off I was standing in front of my friends car with the engine apart and my mouth dropped. I did not want to say anything secondary to him standing right next to me and if I was to tell him what you said he would have laughed. Dave you mislead me. You told me you knew what you were doing. I kept asking you each time are you sure this would work.. You kept saying it should. This has cost me a lot more than it has cost you. I was hoping to help you sell many heads. Now I do not even think I could sell the heads you sold me. Dave you have given me a bad taste when it comes to modding my car.. I should have went with the norm. I have already spent enough money to have purchased a set of GTP heads and installed them and I am now spending money to get muy car back to the way it was before your heads.. At times you made me feel like I was bothering you. Remember, who was the customer. I had no issues until I purchased your heads. I can prove it by a dyno days b4 I installed your heads.. Never had a problem revving the engine to redline.. I also have to hide from my peers secondary to the embarrassment of this whole thing not working out. I am just going to work myself to death or until I forget about ever touching this car again once I get it back to the way it was before your heads.

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

In March is when I had my car towed to Norris Motorsports. I have a lot more emails, but why bother.. My point is made..

NASSty01

Is there anything you can do as far as small claims court? Maybe protest with your C/C company if that's how you paid for them? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> It really sounds like you got shafted.

Good luck to you man. I can only imagine the huge disappointment you've had.

<img border="0" alt="[guns]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_guns.gif" /> Flow Tech

Rick

Raughammer

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by VINCE:
<strong>When you said that I should be able to change the lifters just by taking the intake off Dave you mislead me. You told me you knew what you were doing. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img border="0" alt="[bullshit]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_bs.gif" /> ROTFLMAO!!!! <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />

OMG, cant stop laffin, and this guy chrages folks for his work? <img border="0" alt="[barf]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_barf.gif" />
Dang, dang, dang.......

Dude, dont just leave his shop, RUN!

Campbell

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

Yeah John C. can you believe that..? I was shocked! I wish he would have said things like that b4 I purchased the heads..

poolfanatic

iTrader: (32)

Sorry to hear about your situation. I hate to see anyone throwing good money away to fix the mistakes of an "expert" that you placed your faith in.

I'd consider small claims court or hiring an attorney. It sounds like you might have a case for misrepresentation or possibly fraud.

At this point, it seems like you don't have very much to lose - so why not try and put it to them and recoup some of your losses?

Good luck.

VAP

Vince Sorry to hear about your problems !- By the way now that you believe your heads were milled .060" how much compression would you have and what fuel do you use as i'm thinking maybe your engine is detonating and thats why it doesn't make the power you expected.

5.3ltr heads milled .060" - You must have **** loads of comp ! Maybe too much for the fuel & tune you have right now.
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

I have no KR and I am running 93 octane. Cant discuss any legal stuff. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />